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Old Oct 3, 2007, 02:07 pm   #2 (permalink) (top)
Chancellor
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Location: Buffalo, New York, USA
Posts: 3,523
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Quote by: Autolykos View Post
I don't know how many times I've debated with people who end up using the "Love it or leave it" argument. Their reasoning goes like this:
  1. By staying in the United States (or any other country), you agree to be subject to its laws.
  2. Due to the above, if you do not wish to be subject to its laws, the only thing you can do is leave the country.

There are two ways to disprove a line of reasoning: Prove the conclusion does not follow from the premises, or prove that one or more of the premises is false (in the case of premises that claim to derive from empiricism and reality). While the conclusion presented above is obviously a non-sequitur due to its "only" restriction, I find it more interesting to attack the premise. I shall do so here.

Again, the argument is that, by living in a given country, you agree to be subject to its laws and, therefore, are subject to them. I disagree. My suspicion is that this argument is a subtle instance of the reification fallacy. Laws are not entities with their own will. Ultimately, they exist only in people's minds. Therefore, one can choose not to be subject to one or more laws.

However, the converse of this is that others may still consider that individual subject to those laws. They may compel the individual to "follow the law" (i.e. do what they want) by use or threat of violence. As a result, these others effectively become a government. Yet they have no power over the individual's personal beliefs. He may still not hold himself subject to their laws.

On the other hand, I've discovered something interesting about holding oneself subject to a law. Doing so includes agreeing to a punishment proscribed by that law. Therefore, refusing to follow a law includes resisting any and all punishments provided by it. What would be the result here? Most likely, death -- either at the hands of police or prison guards who resent your resistance and finally decide to put an end to it.

Hence, it is plain for anyone who wishes to see. "Love it or leave it" is simply another way to demand what the State always demands -- complete and total obedience, or death.

- Rob
But it isn't about the nation's laws, it's about the idea of America - our core values, what defines us as Americans. If someone doesn't love our core values, our collective American identity, then that person is kindly invited to go live in some other country more to his liking.


"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." -John Quincy Adams -
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