[Osborn F Enready]

xyzer said: Osborn..I was hoping you add some reality to the fantasy and invented opinions of reality we are experiencing on this thread? You failed me!

Well, this is an area where you and I are diametrically opposed, so this should come as no suprise.

xyzer said: Some parse the actual Congressional approval to put a stop to the Saddam Hussein threat, as not an official war?

Regardless of how official the bi-partisan monopoly made it with their standard, status-quo, hypocritical vote, it still did not meet the requirements for force by the United States.

You don't see me granting ANY respect to the bi-partisan power handlers, because they are all corrupted, windbags working for their own mutual bi-partisan agenda...... growing central government, and furthering the global agenda along the lines of a police state.

xyzer said: This after some 5 years of Congressional funding for the ?expedition? And authorized use of military force?

The same people you complain and bitch about, and now you stand and hold up their "votes" as some type of legitimacy......when the standards that are to bring about those votes were ignored. Saddam had no WMD, was not a national threat, did not attack us, and Iraq had no reason to be invaded by the U.S. for any reason OTHER than corporate intrests.

xyzer said: What does the Iraq war have to do with international terrorist threats and the need to forsee factional attempts to attack our country?

Nothing. There are more extremists, terrorists and troublemakers in Iraq now than there was before we invaded. I have no problem with attacking non-national, or non-state factions once a clear and imminent threat exists, but none existed in Iraq then, and one has been more easily facillitated by our actions since.

xyzer said: These terorist bozos are non national and worldwide!

There is more anti-American sentiment in the middle east, as well as in other nations that used to be friendly toward us, BECAUSE of the Iraq war, so it should be clear how this war has made these non-national guerilla forces jobs easier, right?

xyzer said: We keep reading veiled threats and suggestions of civilians rights being threatened by the electronic surveillance program that does not meet the time frames of civilian warrant execution, and yet I'm still waiting to see evidence that a citizens rights were violated? I'm still waiting for someone to answer the three questions I've asked?

Do the research, there are tons of it, but its hard to access due to the new laws put in place and the current ongoing investigations. I have always feared my own governments restrictions on liberty more than terrorist extremists, and espeically more than Saddams "regime".

xyzer said: The reality of the situation has escaped some?

We noticed. You still keep posting the same tired excuses, misinformation, and "supposed" justifications for the war that shouldn't have happened.

xyzer said: We are at war(or if you prefer threatened by a declared enemy). When this situation occurs we need to gather all the intelligence we can on enemy moves and intentions.

Your right, with respect to individual rights in all pursuits, is what you left out. Sacrificing what makes our society great is no means to fight terror.

xyzer said: We live in an electronic age where data moves near the speed of light and we cannot always wait to mine such intelligence.

And in those cases, where imminent threat exists, I encourage government to step around the law and damn the consequences, the facts shall prove them right in the end and the people may excuse them, but, that is an accountability issue, something this administration has NONE of.

xyzer said: Thats why Congress is presently trying to ease the current foreign surveillance procedure and shape it to the rreality of the world terroist threat!

Yea, I trust congress to shape things to reality........

Did you notice their 3% approval rating due to their "grasp on reality"?

ROFLMAO