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Quote by: Chancellor  You're really not understanding this. There's no such thing as the government's time because the power and authority of government is strictly limited by the Constitution and there is nothing that gives the government the authority to have citizens as a captive audience for a length of time.
I was just citing the motto as an example of ceremonial deism. The opening prayer in school is another example of ceremonial deism. It was wrong to remove one without removing the other since both, arguably, are establishing a State religion.
Can you? If you have to look at the coin in order to determine which one to give to the cashier, you might not be able to ignore it. Sure you can.
First, there is no such thing as "separation of Church and State" in the Constitution or any of its amendments and I really wish you people would stop using that phrase. Congress is prohibited from passing LAWS that either establish a religion (a Church of the United States) or that prohibit the FREE EXERCISE of religion. Also, I didn't say that "no opinion does not mean no negative opinion" and I will insist that you stop reading things into my posts that aren't there. Students don't give up their constitutional rights once they step onto the school grounds and, thus, you are committing treason against the Constitution by insisting that the free exercise of religion be infringed. Religion belongs wherever citizens of religious faith happen to be. In the footbal game analogy you cited earlier, I think that if students want to open the game in prayer and do it over the public address system, they should be allowed to do so since they're students and not the government. However, I also think that the school district should be prohibited from mandating such a prayer or even initiating it. With regard to opening classes up in the morning with prayer (why you felt the need to single out Jesus, I don't know - perhaps that's a particular animus on your part or a Christophobia), if the school district mandates it then it is unconstitutional (as all instances of ceremonial deism are). If students want to get together on school grounds before the start of classes to pray, the government has no constitutional authority to prohibit them from doing so. |
Your definition of government time is too narrow, and isn't that just lucky for you. The government, in any case, does mandate that children be in school. If you are poor, that means they essentially mandate that they be in a public school. And if I am poor and Jewish or poor and Hindu, what makes you think I want my kids to be forced to listen to prayers that name Jesus. And talk about putting an animus falsely on someone, I said Jesus because he is the central focus of the dominant religion in this country (Chritianity) and therefore the most likely to be used in any case. I don't hate Christians. I don't hate Christ or Christianity. I hate what some do in it's and his name. I doubt the supernatural aspects of any religion, but I am not phobic of any of them. So, though you bristle at the idea that someone might assign motives to you that are not your own, you sure have no trouble doing it yourself.
And the reason the kids in the school should not be allowed to pray in Jesus' name over the intercom is because it does show favor to the dominant religion while some kids of other faiths HAVE to be there. Like it or not, it is disrespectful of their right to be free of someone elses version of "religious truth". So, suck it up. Pray to Jesus all you want, just do it at home, in church or in your head. Not over the public address systems.
And if you are seriously contending that amplified voices are less intrusive than words on a coin, you probably don't understand the meaning of the word intrusive. Please do not condesend to me with all your Christophobia crap. You know and I know that there is absolutely no danger that Christianity will be forced into some dark corner anytime soon. I tried to be reasonable in tone with you. You were having no part of it. I thought maybe you might actually want to find some common ground. My mistake. I won't make it with you again.