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Gramps said:
Objectivity must mean reading Ayn Rand, I guess.
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No gramps, it means being able to set aside personal subjective opinion and values, to look at something without bias, as it is.
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Gramps said:
You've said before that people's rights are somehow
'natural' or 'inherent,' but they are not.
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You say that, but have yet to prove it in our multiple conversations on the topic.
The fact is, your right is to fight, or comply if challenged, or to exist unfettered if not. That is your natural rights in a nutshell.
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Gramps said:
It depends on what we learn about the world, ultimately.
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My best advice, keep learning, you have a long way to go. You still struggle with the concept of property rights, yet ADMIT man not only REQUIRES property to live, but is DEPENDENT on property to live and exist. This shows a serious flaw in your logic in my opinion.
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Gramps said:
And, for the record, where do you think "respect is due?"
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Right up until force is inevitable, regardless of will or intent.
All individuals deserve respect for their property, being mind, body, and owned possesions and land.
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Gramps said:
Which, if acted out according to your views would seem like elitist mob consent.
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I don't care what it seems.... to YOU. You and I obviously view reality through different lenses of perspective, and I have no respect for your view on this whatsoever.
Individuals have the right to voluntary mutual conscent transactions, actions and agreements. You seem to like to group collectives and individuals in the same clump, as if they were interchangeable.
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Gramps said:
Fails at what exactly? There are certainly innumerable situations where option two needn't ever apply.
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I agree, but since that is obviously subjective and is a different line to everyone....
You may think property is no big deal, so to you, people deciding to stay on your land without, or AGAINST your permission, may be just a casual affair..... it wouldn't be for me, and I would resort to force, as my rights allow and as I believe is necessary.
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Gramps said:
I also do not love everybody. But I'm not shallow to the point where I'm the only one that matters, or should matter.
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GREAT, good for you, and that is YOUR right to decide FOR YOURSELF. I however, have a different view, and am equally entitled to it.
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Gramps said:
I know I'm not the only one who should matter beacuse my knowledge didn't all come from within me. I owe my very existence to others, for better or worse, and the intelligence and work of others keeps me alive. Practically nobody is truly self-sufficient, and that's why social problems occur. It's important for me to not just shrug off other people's deaths or misfortunes all the time. I don't want people turning their backs on me when I have bad experiences. If there is any major decent principle in the Bible, that would be it.
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Not from my perspective, and I don't agree.
You seem to have some instilled or taught form of "service" or "duty" in your values, and that is great FOR YOU. I am not burdened by such, nor will I be, period.
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Gramps said:
I also realize there are indeed many instances people have no one to blame but themselves. But even then, how much shaming should occur? Studying society often becomes a matter of pathology. It's ill and in need of fixing.
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LOL....
Its the individuals who have the problems, and it is their problems to deal with. Only a pompous ass would assume he could fix the worlds problems to suit anyone but themselves.
One of my favortie quotes....
“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
-Daniel Webster
I am no master, nor a slave. I am man, myself, and responsible for such and no more. Your idea of "duty" and "born into sin" mentality is what creates sheeple and sheeple herders, and I simply refuse to play either side of that fence, or walk it.