Quote:
FanGrim said:
Basically:
There is nothing about being a person or being human that exempts us from being assigned as property, or traded as property.
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That is not true, at least as stated without qualifications.
Nobody can "assign" my rights away, without my free-will conscent.
Quote:
Fangrim said:
There is nothing supernatural or spectacular about human beings that would make us any different from mules or cars in our capacity to be in someone else's ownership.
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Again, I disagree.
Mules are limited by nature, and are inferior to man due to natures limitations, which is why man treats mules as property.
Cars are products of man, and are tools, by design.
Man is unique in both natural physical ability (opposing thumbs), the ability for logic and reason, which has lead to language, farming, science and technology, to RISE ABOVE violence or force, as well as mans ability to move far past natural instinct using logic and reason.
Nothing else does this, that has near mans abilities, on earth.
Quote:
Fangrim said:
Particularly in a tribal society in competition with other tribes, a victorious tribe can do what it wants with the defeated, including taking their people as slaves. There's nothing wrong with this, if only to the extent as there's nothing wrong with warfare in the first place, or competition in the first place.
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I don't think this can be "reduced" to "right and wrong" or "black and white" as you seem to imply. One individuals "right and wrong" are exact opposites of another individuals "right and wrong", as well as societies also mimmick that natural observation, sometimes, but not always based on the individuals within that society, unless force is used as the means of "control" of the populace by government.
Quote:
Fangrim said:
It may be disliked, surely; I know I wouldn't like being a slave as opposed to being free. But just because I don't like something certainly doesn't make it immoral, or wrong.
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Immoral and wrong are different to
every individual to
some finite degree.
The only moral and right thing to all people, is to allow all people the chance to choose for themselves, to the point it infringes on another rights to do the same, without the use of force being a factor.
Free-will, voluntary mutual conscent, is the only morally acceptable and "right" to all persons regardless of beliefs, morals or philosophy, since they chart their own existence based on their own choices, skills, needs, desires and abilties.
Quote:
Fangrim said:
Enslavement of other people's can be thought of as free competition and capitalism to its greatest extent, to an extent that allows us to compete between each other with not only the ownership of money, or guns, or horses, or cars and houses and land, but people as well.
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True capitalism removes force from "legality" except in legal defense of ones rights, as an individual, or the rights of others, by extension.
Capitalism, and Free-Trade are both dependent on the "illegality" of force used as a tool of coercion, fraud, murder or theft.
Quote:
Fangrim said:
Slavery is not a universal wrong. Discuss.
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Slavery by force, is always wrong, unless in defense or punishment for rights violation of others by said individual.
Working for someone to pay off a debt, is not slavery.
Winning someone in a game of chance, if they WILLINGLY bet themselves KNOWING the cost of loss, is not slavery.
FORCING someone to serve you, is slavery. Forcing someone to honor their honorable debts, is not.