[BobbyO]

Quote by: grandpa I have gone further than that. Housing cooperatives are a way to go, unless you deny that you are capable of basic social organizating. If I were to believe money is the only way people can do things it wouldn't be far from my becoming an apocalyptic wierdo. Apparently it's impossible for some to understand there is no perfect schema for social organization, whether we're talking hypothetically or in actual practice. However, to comprehend my point one needn't look very far. I've already posted a link on post-Katrina organizing in New Orleans. Those efforts are anarchic in nature. There is also the Israeli Kibbutz: The Kibbutz These efforts realize social organization needn't have an anti-social, class-based and deceptive nature. So tenants should just stay perpectually ignorant? The point of brains is for people to learn new things, especially applicable skills. Landlords aren't necessary for this to happen, either. Can't fix a pipe? Either find out how or call a plumber. If people really need outsid help, they needn't pay hundreds of dollars a month every month to get it. They can turn to someone else. A lot of landlords turn to external help anyway. A lot of problems have simple solutions. If the toilet overflows all you may need is a plunger and a mop. That usually works. Okay, you just conceded the point I just made (I reply to most posts in order of appearance). Here's a question: Do people living in an RV need a landlord? I don't think so. What makes this situation so different than houses? 1. Most houses aren't on wheels. 2. There is not a legally imposed landlord. I'm still highly amazed that so many people defend landlords, as if they are some sacred legal entity that people would die without. Have you people never been tenants or something? How do you not realize that what you call a "service" is more often than not just a pain in the ass? Are you incapable of understanding that without paying rent a great burden would be lifted from social life and everything from human creativity and independence would have a chance to better be realized? That would be something. As for plumbers not being able to be at two places at once, no "mechanism" can solve that problem--not yours or not mine. Maybe human cloning, but still.... Grandpa h.

I fully recognise there is no perfect scheme for social organization; people are not perfect.

Which is why you demanding that people solve their own problems, as a principle of social organisation, seems quite flawed. I have no love for landlords. But hey, its their job to fix those types of problems that a tenant may not have sufficient knowledge or interest in doing (and since I know you dislike a "money system" it would seem the problem is greater as there is LESS reason for a person to learn things, in your society, which do not interest them. A leaky faucet? Call the plumber who likes doing this kind of stuff and it doesn't cost me anything).

But again, why should the plumber respond to your desire for him to fix your leaky faucet? Since he can't be in two places at once, why go to you, and not to the fellow on the other side of town? Again, mechanisms are needed to make these types of determinations.