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RebelWithanAK · Oct 15, 2003, 10:56 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dannyp,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
"Unborn baby" is a contradiction in terms. The reason the baby isn't born 20 weeks into the pregnancy is because it isn't a baby then. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

no, but that doesn't mean it is not alive. a toddler isn't a toddler until he/she reaches that stage. a baby isn't a baby until they reach that stage. That holds no bearing on weather or not they are alive, however. Weather or not they are living on their own is a seperate debate, why don't you call it a parasite and suck the shit out of its brain or something eh? ....great idea......<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Actually, I already did say it was alive (tho before the brain forms, it's a really grey area of "alive") as well as call it a parasite (since a 20 week old fetus cannot live on its own), but that's besides the point. It's not a baby. It's not an independent being. It doesn't fall under our statutes. I don't see people walking down the street with strollers full of translucent fish-like things showing them off to their friends. You REALLY gotta get off the "it's a potential human life" thing. That's like saying every sperm I spill is a life wasted (which is what JFK said at one point, being a devout catholic and staunt proponent against abortion. Another analogy he used is that every aborted fetus could have been a rocket scientist, which is an even more tenuous argument, but that's going off on a tangent). It's fucking ridiculous to argue such blind ideology in the face of where our society stands now.

That said, The mother does fall under our statutes. And there are many physical and socio-economic reasons not to force her into pregnancy and motherhood, not least of which is poverty - and the lack of federal funding for midwiving, prenatal care, day care, schools... you know, what normal, healthy families with two parents that are already well-established with decent wages are supposed to deal with - rape, physical trauma, teen pregnancy, overcrowded orphanages and a host of other problems that are evident and quite rampant in our 'enlightened' society. I don't see you dealing with those properly, so get off the moral high horse already.

Oct 15, 2003, 10:56 pm	#86 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dannyp,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) "Unborn baby" is a contradiction in terms. The reason the baby isn't born 20 weeks into the pregnancy is because it isn't a baby then. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> no, but that doesn't mean it is not alive. a toddler isn't a toddler until he/she reaches that stage. a baby isn't a baby until they reach that stage. That holds no bearing on weather or not they are alive, however. Weather or not they are living on their own is a seperate debate, why don't you call it a parasite and suck the shit out of its brain or something eh? ....great idea......<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Actually, I already did say it was alive (tho before the brain forms, it's a really grey area of "alive") as well as call it a parasite (since a 20 week old fetus cannot live on its own), but that's besides the point. It's not a baby. It's not an independent being. It doesn't fall under our statutes. I don't see people walking down the street with strollers full of translucent fish-like things showing them off to their friends. You REALLY gotta get off the "it's a potential human life" thing. That's like saying every sperm I spill is a life wasted (which is what JFK said at one point, being a devout catholic and staunt proponent against abortion. Another analogy he used is that every aborted fetus could have been a rocket scientist, which is an even more tenuous argument, but that's going off on a tangent). It's fucking ridiculous to argue such blind ideology in the face of where our society stands now. That said, The mother does fall under our statutes. And there are many physical and socio-economic reasons not to force her into pregnancy and motherhood, not least of which is poverty - and the lack of federal funding for midwiving, prenatal care, day care, schools... you know, what normal, healthy families with two parents that are already well-established with decent wages are supposed to deal with - rape, physical trauma, teen pregnancy, overcrowded orphanages and a host of other problems that are evident and quite rampant in our 'enlightened' society. I don't see you dealing with those properly, so get off the moral high horse already. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.