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Old Jan 3, 2007, 05:06 pm   #15 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready
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Location: Toledo, Ohio
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Quote:
Gramps said:
Provide examples, please.
Examples of why rights are inherant by nature?

Sure.

Firstly, I control what thoughts of my own I put into action. I own my body, thusly.

Based on that....

I am born with a voice-box, which I control. I have a right to free speech, should I choose to defend it against those who attempt to take it away, man or beast. My speech is a product of my nature, my education, my experience, my thoughts, my perception, regardless of what was input originally. This makes the process, mine, entirely, and its use at my whim, entirely.

I am born with two hands, that have opposeable thumbs. This makes me as a human, unique when coupled with our brains capacity and inclination toward logic, and problem solving via thoughts provoking reason, prompted by me into action, to create tools to make nature more appealing and useful for my needs. This gives me a right to property, since I can not only claim property (myself included), I can defend it using the tools I make to do just that, be it club, spear, pike, bow and arrow, sling, hatchet or gun. I can convert natural substance into a tool, using labor that is mine, thoughts that are mine, and results in something that is not natural, but is man made, by me. Nature is all of ours, and it is only law that keeps men respectful of what others call their own, but nobody can deny that nature is natural, and tools are a product of man, influencing nature, which requires/demands compensation for what was not there before, if it has value to the one seeking it. All living things require property, if not only for the physical space they consume, and the food that keeps them alive. This makes property elemental in the equation of man and nature.

That is the natural equation of property, labor and natures interaction.
Man requires property to live, whether discussing physical entity, needs for nourishment, or ability to function, which is surely natural.

Animals, insects, fish and all other forms of life including plants have "defensive" mechanisms, humans simply are by nature, the top of the natural chain of natural selection, and their brain coupled with their opposable thumbs, gives them the natural ability to create tools, and exploit nature for his own purpose, since man is the master of all things natural except nature itself, by any standard.

I have a right to property(myself and that which I gain natural or legal admission of), a right to defense of that property using force (since as we see in all forms of nature, each life form exhibits a form of defense and creation).

I have a right to labor for myself, since it is only I who can decide to labor, or not. It is only I who decide what gain and loss is acceptable for the value of that labor, and that is exhibited by my choice to labor or not.

I have a right to move, because I am naturall able to move, and can exercise that ability at will, to the extent that I can defend it.

I have a right to eat, as much as my ability will allow by nature, limited by nature and my fellow man only, seeing as how I can attain and consume food natural and alive, from whatever source I find digestable, to the extent that I can defend that right.

I have a right to live as I believe is right for me, since only I know what I value and what I despise. My right to pursue happiness is limited only by the equal rights that I afford my fellow man in protection of my own, in a mutual agreement between men that we are equals.

I have a right to privacy, in so much as I can defend my privacy. As technology increases, this threat is the most insidious since it attempts to de-value that which has the most value, information, gained from labor by those with intrest and the natural ability to pursue it with pleasure.

These are just some of humans natural rights, and a large basis of why they were inlcuded into our bill of rights in the United States. All things have natural rights, that are limited by nature itself. We are the most free from natures grasp, which allows us the most ability to influence and change nature to benefit ourselves, individually or collectively, directly or indirectly.

Rights naturally exist, and they are inherant by nature, but not equal by nature. Man, especially in the American society, have tried to equalize rights for those not blessed by nature with equal rights by birth defect, disease, or other issues that affect a childs natural abilities among men and women.

Quote:
Gramps said:
Provide examples, please.
Of the failures of democracies? Sure.

Firstly, what is a direct democracy?

It is absolute power of one percentage of people (the majority) over a group of another percentage of people (the minority) by vote.

If it is a form of government, as opposed to the schoolyard, there is a level of force that comes attached to that majority rule. The vote is all about power, in the end, and as power is used and abused, retribution enters the mix for every consecutive vote in succession.

Nothing is sacred in democracy, no limitations are imposed upon the ruling body, by the masses, since the masses are DUPED into believing they control the system. Its enemy lies in subjectivity of humans, and ignorance of our common threads, and with each voted encroachment of a large group of values not necessarily shared with the "majority", comes a new generation of people seeking retribution through legal and other means.

The success of democracy rests in the constant consumption of its own, which can only be sustained until no more will fight for the flag that defines it, and instead turn in against themselves with arms instead of votes.

I don't have a problem with democracy that is limited, and not permitted to infringe upon the rights of individuals, but that is not a direct democracy, and direct democracy caters to the collective, whatever shape the majority takes.

The things that seperates man from nature is individualism, and it is quite natural. Direct Democracy attempts to ignore this, and places the collective good above the individual good that make up the collective. Eventually all people are disenfranchised to the point of rebellion, for individual causes, dissolving the collective.


Petition of Redress of Grievances:
http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm

Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks:
http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/


Osborn F. Enready
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