[Atlas]

Quote by: ise Just a quickie. How selective and cheap. I'll return on the kidnapped soldiers. Even the obviously bias wiki had this that you obviously over looked.

I wasn't overlooking that, it just wasn't relevant to my argument nor was it relevant to the topic that you presented, we are taking about what happened in Lebanon here, don't we, although I guessed you will bring that into discussion as an irrelevant thing, I do not deny that such mistreatments of the Palestinian population never occur, but for once, the IDF does not use its own population as human shields, like the terrorists do, second of all, you'll see that there are far less of those cases in the IDF as they are illegal by Israeli law, a thing which you yourself admitted, anyone caught doing that gets court-marshaled, that's the difference, when the IDF allows itself to commit such acts in foreign population, the Israeli society sees it as a degradation of its values, you've quoted several times the words of Israeli human rights activists, but when terrorists shoot rockets or plan suicide bombings in Israeli towns from within their own civilian population, the local population rarely rises against them, because: A. they support them B. they're afraid of them, that's why the terrorists falsely think they are untouchable there.

Quote by: ise I would appreciate if you would debate this using your own intellect.

You mean not by posting dozens of irrelevant articles ??!

OK, I will try...

Quote by: ise Hezbollah is a guerrilla group of the people. To suggest that they would use their own son, daughters, nieces and nephews as human shields is ludicrous. Hezbollah can only survive and prosper while they retain the support of their community. Being a party, even third hand, to the children would ensure an immediate lose of this support. Sure money and arms came from abroad. Why not? But they must have the support of their community. Mao's Great March and after, along with Vietnam and the IRA proved that. If you fail to appreciate this then do not bother reading further! There is none so blind as...

Here are some facts:

1. Hezbollah is rapidly losing support in Lebanon because of the war, I'm
just guessing using civilians as human shields has something to do with
it.

2. It constantly tries to by public opinion with money they receive from Iran,
where else would they have the money to throw such a "Divine Victory"
campaign or to give about 10,000 dollars (I don't remember the exact
figure) to anyone who's home was destroyed.

You can check the authenticity of those facts on the web if you like, bottom line here Hezbollah is not a guerrilla force but a terrorist organization for A. guerrillas do not attack civilian population in conflict B. guerrillas do not hide among civilian population.

Quote by: ise The notion of human shields being used could only work if there was a reasonable expectation of it succeeding. There is NO EVIDENCE that such a device could/would work against the IDF.

Really ?? how about the Qana incident, I think it gave the Hezbollah about 24 hours of totally clear sky's from the IAF, the fact that so many of Hezbollahs short range rocket launchers survived it is because of the fact that they where carefully placed in and among civil houses, I think if the IDF truly didn't care about Lebanese civilian casualties it could have flattened those villages.

Example: Why bother infiltrating with a commando unit to destroy a single rocket launcher and endangering soldiers when you can simply bomb it and possibly kill some civilians ?

Quote by: ise Some say they would relish the opportunity to target practice even with minimal justification. That 12 year old child in his father's arms that we all saw being riddled with aimed shots put pay forever that the IDF tugs would show any mercy when faced with Arab children.

Did you actually see the shooters in that tape ?

Quote by: ise Kids throwing rocks at metal tanks DIE. To say "Zionist were complicit in the Holocaust" is 10 more accurate than Hezbollah using their children as human shields. So there is NO EVIDENCE to indicate that Human Shields work against the IDF. I contend any attempt would be totally counter productive.

While I can give you examples, there aren't a lot to give, you won't see a headline that says "IDF did not target a Rocket launcher because it is placed in a mosque" or "IDF did not fired back on terrorists because soldiers spotted there are civilians inside" those are not news by western media standards, the only proof I can give you that the IDF is generally sensitive to human life and human rights is that civilians continue to live their lives in the Palestinian territories and south Lebanon while theoretically, considering IDF's full firepower they could be all dead within weeks along with the terrorists within them.

Quote by: ise I say that only Zionist would consider that Hezbollah would consider using their children as human shields. Only RACISTS would believe that other human beings would do so. You would need to be a SICK SICK degenerate to believe that other humans would do such a thing. Yes, I say again, only an absolute RACIST would believe that Arabs would use their kids as shields when more dead Arabs would result.[/LIST]Remember the idea of human shields is an Israeli invention.

So wikipedia and the Washington Times are racists for publishing those articles, as the Human Rights Watch, who's conclusions you post against my debates, it is only your own empty anger that prevents you from acknowledging the facts, "sick" is to do the things that Hezbollah did, and "sick" is to blindly deny it after being presented with facts.

Tell me, would I be "sick" thinking humans can put others in concentration camps and systematically exterminate them with horrific efficiency ?

That would be much worse than using them as human shields, yet the holocaust did happened, didn't it ?

Quote by: ise I have more points but I've probably lost you way back. I understood this was a debate forum. Argue and debate. Yes back up you arguments with sources but do not turn it into 'my source is better/bigger/stronger than your source'. The value of this is intellectual debate with an exchange of views and not just swapping sources, and certain not wiki as prime source. I thought after our soccer debate and your use of wiki would dissuade you from continuing to use it.

Funny you should say something about that, every post of yours contains at leas 3-4 articles and few self written arguments, I can say definitely that most of my sources are way more objective than yours when it comes to debating Israel and the Palestinians, and not your Israeli corruption obsession, that wiki (which I remind you, served your cause in some debates) is way more objective than Palestinian propaganda sites that you mainly rely on.You definitely seem like a lost case, but you seem intelligent enough to waste time on, maybe you can still face reality as it is.

Turn away from the dark side, see the error of your ways and the force will be with you