Quote:
Quote by: Leveller  Ah, dear boy thats very debatable. You say that you are required only to follow the teacings of Christ? |
And the moral laws of the OT
Quote:
Here are some of the things that Christ said about the old testiment, and upholding laws written in the O.T.
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
|
If you take ONLY this one line, then yes, it appears to be saying what you are implying, however when you take it in context Luke 16:16-18 you will understand that this is refering to the laws of Divorce only....
16"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law. 18"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."NIV.
This was refering to moral laws. :) Like I said, I am an athiest, so if my attempt at apologetics is wrong, I hope the christians here will correct me. I use to make the same mistakes when arguing with atheists by only arguing one or two verses when I should have looked deeper into the context.
Quote:
|
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
|
Again you've taken John 7:19 out of context, look to
John 7:14-24 to get the full meaning of that verse. He is refering to the crowd wanting to kill him for healing (working) on the Sabath, but the laws given by moses are clear on what constitutes "work" on the sabath and what doesn't.
As for John 1:17, "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." This is not speaking of civil or ritualistic laws, however it could be argued that Moses never spoke of Jesus Christ. I'm not sure about this verse at all. Maybe Moses said something to the effect of grace and truth came through the lord??? A christian could answer that better than me.
Quote:
|
Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die"
|
No, he criticizes the Pharisees for being hypocritical and he used that commandment as an example. He is NOT chastizing for not killing disobedient children,
Read Mark 7:1-23 to see what I mean. I learned early on in my atheism that it doesn't do much good to use one liners to refute christianity. Even christians are guilty of this (not all but some, usually fundies) who will take a one liner to make their point. Also, as I said in my OP, After Christ came, all debts for sins (even breaking the 10C's) are paid for by Jesus. Stoning a man for working on the sabath is no longer required by christians, just ask for forgiveness because Jesus already died and was resurrected for all sins. (assuming this is true of course)
Quote:
|
Seems to me that if you wan't to get to your great gig in the sky, youd better start following the OT. I just hppe you haven't raped anyone.
|
To be a good christian you shouldn't do any sins, but since thats impossible, you do have an out.... ask for forgiveness and believe in Jesus and his resurrection. Depending on what flavor of Christianity you follow, you may be required to be baptised, born again, and need to do good deeds, but thats for them to figure out...
Quote:
|
Furthermore, the Ten commandments, or moral laws as you refer to them, are pretty brutal in their own right. Most of the punishments for breaking the 10 comnmandments are to be put to death, even though one of the commendments is that you shall never kill (Someone really didn't think that one through).
|
It sucked to be Hebrew at the time of the 10Cs, but after Christ died for all our sins, all sin is forgiven with the above mentioned conditions. Personally, I don't believe in the existence of Christ or his resurrection or the prophecies or miracles, so if I'm wrong, it sucks to be me.
Any christians who think my apologetics needs help, feel free, also, How am I doing for an atheist? LOL