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Quote by: StrongHeartsWin The "right people" or decision makers will only act once a groundswell of people call for change. Activists don`t have to just target industry leaders and politicians, they have to target their customers and constituents to inform them so that they join the group of voices calling for change.

Less debating, more doing.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin That is not what I asked you in the above post. You said that animals should be killed before being dissasemble. If you say that they should be so, then you obviously feel that it is bad that they are slaughtered the way they are and that that system of disassembling them is horrible. I asked you a question above based on your knowledge of the system and your eating habits. Please go up and give a direct answer to the question posed to you.

This post was not specific to your post alone.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin If one accepts that it is impossible to live a life without causing some death or suffering, then one should at least accept that he or she should cause the least amount of death and suffering possible. In that case, it takes more plant life to create value added in the form of beef than what would go directly to consumers. Therefore, less life would be lost without beef production. The net loss of life and suffering is less if one eats plant life. Vegetarianism has never been about perfection. That said, would you please show us a peer accepted research paper published in a well respected journal that conclusively states plants have the ability to suffer?

So plants are therefore less valueble just because of their physical mass after being turned into beef? I somehow find that hard to believe. If something lives, it may not have the same types of feelings we do, but it is still alive, and picking plants, is just the same as killing animals to feed humans. Oh and killing an animal so it's dead right then, means it hardly suffered.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin I would too if one were threatening my life. Do they threaten your life on a daily basis? FYI, your survival is not dependent upon eating them in this modern world. If you think so and cling to out of date perceptions, do show us data that says your life is dependent upon eating meat in this modern world.

Self defense is different from someone who would jump in front of a moving car to save an animal. Our lives aren't dependent on eating meat, nor is it dependent on eating plants.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Testimonials are not verifiable. Since they are not verifiable, they prove nothing and therefore mean nothing in debate. I, too, could come back with "a friend of mine" story and in the end these kinds of stories do little to prove a point -- other than someone is not skilled at debating or making a point.

Testimonials have the same merit as the keys that I physically type to voice my opinion. So basically, you automatically call me a liar. Where is the proof of that? Would you like me to video tape "my friend" saying these things? Then you'll accuse me of faking the video with some actress or something.... wtf? You will just have to take my word. Don't call me a liar if you cannot verify I am a liar. Now it does prove a point, because if it was "true," this story of mine, then it'd show how ignorant people are to self preservation. Self awareness, things that we natually do to survive in this "modern world." Testimonials then rule out all the stories you see on the news or on the internet, but replacing, " a friend of mine," with, "Breaking news!" In that case, we'd only be able to turst our gut feeling, and all my gut is telling me right now, is that I'm hungry, and I'm heading over to McDonalds to get a double QPC with no veggies.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Again, testimonials mean little. I don`t deny though that many people are more prone to give special consideration to 'cute' animals rather than the reptilian kind. More flesh eaters are guilty of this than vegetarians -- and even more so than vegetarians who choose their diet based on animal rights.

More flesh eaters than vegetarians? Well don't you think more flesh eaters exist than vegetarians? That would make the ratio about even in my book. No, I wouldn't know the exact answer, but then again, neither do you. My problems aren't necessarily against vegetarians, it's against stupid, ignorant people. I'm not saying I'm smarter than everyone, I'm just trying to question why people do these things? Which brings me to my conclusion. Vegetarianism is only beneficial for health reasons. But it is not a necessity, nor is beef, chicken, fish, shellfish, turkey, duck, pork, or any other type of animal that exists that is edible.

I love animals. 9 8.82%
I want to stay healthy. 7 6.86%
For religious reasons. 0 0%
It runs in the family. 2 1.96%
I am no vegetarian!!! 84 82.35%

It is apparent by this poll that most people are not vegetarian. But, we can see that nobody that has voted does it mainly for religious purposes. So that's good. But, 2 voted it runs in the family, and unless forced to do so, by parents, or whomever else, doing it just because someone else does it does not make you right. I agree that animals are something to be cherished, as we, too, are animals, but so are plants, and all wild life. So that leaves one viable option for those who are vegetarians, and that is to stay healthy. Sure I eat the occasional tomato, or eat onions on my burgers, but still, it really comes down to eating food(including meat and veggies) moderation, and excersize that makes a person healthy, not eating only a certain type of food.