Volconvo Debate Forums - View Single Post - Cuba Is Not As Bad As You're Told To Think

Apr 28, 2004, 02:03 am

PatrickHenry,

The information you quoted, is largely the same story as told in Cuba, some of it at least is proven simply by seeing what they claimed, for example, literacy, health and education. On the other hand, due to the likes of trade embargoes there are shortages of things such as medicines for children. Healthcare in Cuba is best in prevention rather than cure. The people remain poor in terms of money, but have reasonable lives. I didn't see a single person suffering from malnutrition, quite the opposite in fact.

As to how many plots have been thwarted, hard to say. I will tell you though that in Cuba, the Bay of Pigs is claimed as a victory over the United States, as is the missile crisis, given the guarantee the United States signed (which is my pick, that the agreement was the actual ambition of the missiles being located in Cuba).

Certainly Cuban's did indeed support nations in their endeavours to become socialist type nations. There was also a lot of FUD spread about the Cuban troops in Africa as well, the other teams were at least equally as bad and more colonial or dictatorial in their ambitions. The revolution in Cuba remains popular to this day, Cubans in the main consider themselves free.

Summing up on your comments, the United States has had a bad attitude to Cuba for a very long time, think back to what caused the US invasion in what was it, 1903 or there abouts. Shades of Bush II.

Whether the US actually tries to mislead on Cuba is arguable, though I tend to think it does. The reason Castro and his revolution is hated is probably much the same as the revolutions by the leftists in Central America were hated (I've spent a lot of time in Central America too, and there's a not too disimilar story to be told about that). In short, it comes down to two words, "land reform". In almost every case of this nature, you will find that US business interests have bought into countries big time, generally through dictators or military juntas. The leftists tended to preach land reform and taking back what had been sold out from under the people by their rulers, without the consent of the people. That of course endangered US business interests. Hell, take a good look at the history of Nicaragua, it's quite obvious if one goes back to where the US interest really started with a pirate named William Walker.

An oft cited example the US has used about Cuba is that Cuba has never paid out to anyone for the businesses and resources it nationalized after the revolution. Which is actually true, but it also misleading. Cuba has on numerous occasions offered to pay, but the US has refused to take the money, which is in the billions. I'm sure you get the idea.

I'm certain there are at least some human rights abuses in Cuba, I'm certain there is at least some stifling of political dissent. The real question is how much. The US would arrest those in the pay of foreign nations attemtping to cause political problems or promote revolution in the same manner that Cuba has. The US has now also shown under Bush it has no issue with incarceration without charge, and without public trial etc.

Cuba certainly isn't perfect, it isn't all good, but it's a fairly nice place. The ironies I found in Cuba that I remember best, one of the waiters in my hotel discussing Australian and Cuban politics with me. He gies on overseas holidays when he can afford them. Certainly, he could have been a plant, but with one exception (a taxi driver) no one I met had any qualms about talking politics with me, international or Cuban. The general opinion of Castro was really neither here nor there as such. The real cult of personality appears to this day to be "el che". His death is yet another story that has much question of US involvement surrounding it.

Also, sitting in my hotel reading the NYT and watching US cartoons on Satellite TV was ironic, when one can't use a US credit card in Cuba. You'll still find people claiming you can't take US publications such as newspapers in to Cuba, hogswaddle. One of my bags carried plenty and I carried a copy of Time under my arm entering the country.

Mosy heavily guarded building in Cuba, the American Mission, it's surrounded by Cuban police (I mean like a policeman every two yards), everyday apparently. Quite a site.

The only problem of any sort I encountered in Cuba was when leaving the country, customs officials had me taken aside and went through one of my bags. It was an amusing scene, a member of the airport staff (not police and I never saw any active military in Cuba except around a military base) went through the airport looking for me, stopping people to ask if they were Mr Wolf. When he found me he simply explained that customs wished to look through one of my bags and would I report to customs, he explained where to go and I was left to find my own way to customs. Xray had shown some interesting things in my bag. I had enough electronic equipment to make James Bond a little envious but all it took for them was to look through it (the plane was delayed while my bag was searched) and make sure it was all pretty much normal stuff, spare batteries for laptops and cameras, an ethernet switch, spare laptop, pdas, chargers, cables, video camera and spare 35mm camera, cell phones and so on. No worries at all.

I'd recomend Cuba as a tourist destination to anyone, it's safe, affordable, beautiful countryside, really nice people, great music, in fact the arts in general are stunning, architecture in Havana is superb, though the whole damn city needs a coat of paint and of course, steeped in history. Don't forget to try the cigars of course, find a street vendor and have them roll you one while you wait. You don't need to bribe anyone though you might also find things don't happen at the pace you might like them too.

Apr 28, 2004, 02:03 am	#60 (permalink) (top)
PeterWolf Guest Posts: n/a	PatrickHenry, The information you quoted, is largely the same story as told in Cuba, some of it at least is proven simply by seeing what they claimed, for example, literacy, health and education. On the other hand, due to the likes of trade embargoes there are shortages of things such as medicines for children. Healthcare in Cuba is best in prevention rather than cure. The people remain poor in terms of money, but have reasonable lives. I didn't see a single person suffering from malnutrition, quite the opposite in fact. As to how many plots have been thwarted, hard to say. I will tell you though that in Cuba, the Bay of Pigs is claimed as a victory over the United States, as is the missile crisis, given the guarantee the United States signed (which is my pick, that the agreement was the actual ambition of the missiles being located in Cuba). Certainly Cuban's did indeed support nations in their endeavours to become socialist type nations. There was also a lot of FUD spread about the Cuban troops in Africa as well, the other teams were at least equally as bad and more colonial or dictatorial in their ambitions. The revolution in Cuba remains popular to this day, Cubans in the main consider themselves free. Summing up on your comments, the United States has had a bad attitude to Cuba for a very long time, think back to what caused the US invasion in what was it, 1903 or there abouts. Shades of Bush II. Whether the US actually tries to mislead on Cuba is arguable, though I tend to think it does. The reason Castro and his revolution is hated is probably much the same as the revolutions by the leftists in Central America were hated (I've spent a lot of time in Central America too, and there's a not too disimilar story to be told about that). In short, it comes down to two words, "land reform". In almost every case of this nature, you will find that US business interests have bought into countries big time, generally through dictators or military juntas. The leftists tended to preach land reform and taking back what had been sold out from under the people by their rulers, without the consent of the people. That of course endangered US business interests. Hell, take a good look at the history of Nicaragua, it's quite obvious if one goes back to where the US interest really started with a pirate named William Walker. An oft cited example the US has used about Cuba is that Cuba has never paid out to anyone for the businesses and resources it nationalized after the revolution. Which is actually true, but it also misleading. Cuba has on numerous occasions offered to pay, but the US has refused to take the money, which is in the billions. I'm sure you get the idea. I'm certain there are at least some human rights abuses in Cuba, I'm certain there is at least some stifling of political dissent. The real question is how much. The US would arrest those in the pay of foreign nations attemtping to cause political problems or promote revolution in the same manner that Cuba has. The US has now also shown under Bush it has no issue with incarceration without charge, and without public trial etc. Cuba certainly isn't perfect, it isn't all good, but it's a fairly nice place. The ironies I found in Cuba that I remember best, one of the waiters in my hotel discussing Australian and Cuban politics with me. He gies on overseas holidays when he can afford them. Certainly, he could have been a plant, but with one exception (a taxi driver) no one I met had any qualms about talking politics with me, international or Cuban. The general opinion of Castro was really neither here nor there as such. The real cult of personality appears to this day to be "el che". His death is yet another story that has much question of US involvement surrounding it. Also, sitting in my hotel reading the NYT and watching US cartoons on Satellite TV was ironic, when one can't use a US credit card in Cuba. You'll still find people claiming you can't take US publications such as newspapers in to Cuba, hogswaddle. One of my bags carried plenty and I carried a copy of Time under my arm entering the country. Mosy heavily guarded building in Cuba, the American Mission, it's surrounded by Cuban police (I mean like a policeman every two yards), everyday apparently. Quite a site. The only problem of any sort I encountered in Cuba was when leaving the country, customs officials had me taken aside and went through one of my bags. It was an amusing scene, a member of the airport staff (not police and I never saw any active military in Cuba except around a military base) went through the airport looking for me, stopping people to ask if they were Mr Wolf. When he found me he simply explained that customs wished to look through one of my bags and would I report to customs, he explained where to go and I was left to find my own way to customs. Xray had shown some interesting things in my bag. I had enough electronic equipment to make James Bond a little envious but all it took for them was to look through it (the plane was delayed while my bag was searched) and make sure it was all pretty much normal stuff, spare batteries for laptops and cameras, an ethernet switch, spare laptop, pdas, chargers, cables, video camera and spare 35mm camera, cell phones and so on. No worries at all. I'd recomend Cuba as a tourist destination to anyone, it's safe, affordable, beautiful countryside, really nice people, great music, in fact the arts in general are stunning, architecture in Havana is superb, though the whole damn city needs a coat of paint and of course, steeped in history. Don't forget to try the cigars of course, find a street vendor and have them roll you one while you wait. You don't need to bribe anyone though you might also find things don't happen at the pace you might like them too.