Volconvo Debate Forums - View Single Post - Consent of the governed

Lava · Apr 23, 2004, 04:27 pm

hi

> Unless I'm mistaken, I've made my point cyrstal clear.

I think so. But no-one has shown understanding of it yet as far as I can tell.

> This is what I believe and practice, until or unless I consent to be governed, absolutely no individual or "government" has the moral, lawful authority to subject me to their governance - period!

I guess it depends how you define 'lawful'...

Being within the law; allowed by law
Obeying the law; law-abiding

Now, governing you without your consent is within the law, therefore it is lawful.

The next question is where does the law come from? And the answer is simple, each law comes from whoever has the power to make that law or rule.

Your government has power over you because it wants to and is able to. Its as simple as that in reality. The rhetoric used to justify it gets poeple's support, and thus gives it power. The morality behind it might be wonderful, diabolical, or mediocre, either way, but it is not morality that determines who has power and what laws/rules they pass using that power.

By the way... some things are obviously wrong here...

> The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America states, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

obviously not true

> that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among thses are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

obviously not true. Its nice when we grant each other these rights of course.

> That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

I'm going to say that the majority do consent to goverment. Yes we can all grumble, but at the end of the day only a small minority wants anarchy, and sees the restrictions in place as on the whole better than being ungoverned.

Of course how well theyve considered the question is another thing, and I'm sure for some its assent, for some consent, for some refusal to do either of those, and for some something between.

Regards, Lava!

Apr 23, 2004, 04:27 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Lava Igneous Magma Posts: 716	hi > Unless I'm mistaken, I've made my point cyrstal clear. I think so. But no-one has shown understanding of it yet as far as I can tell. > This is what I believe and practice, until or unless I consent to be governed, absolutely no individual or "government" has the moral, lawful authority to subject me to their governance - period! I guess it depends how you define 'lawful'... Being within the law; allowed by law Obeying the law; law-abiding Now, governing you without your consent is within the law, therefore it is lawful. The next question is where does the law come from? And the answer is simple, each law comes from whoever has the power to make that law or rule. Your government has power over you because it wants to and is able to. Its as simple as that in reality. The rhetoric used to justify it gets poeple's support, and thus gives it power. The morality behind it might be wonderful, diabolical, or mediocre, either way, but it is not morality that determines who has power and what laws/rules they pass using that power. By the way... some things are obviously wrong here... > The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America states, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, obviously not true > that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among thses are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. obviously not true. Its nice when we grant each other these rights of course. > That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." I'm going to say that the majority do consent to goverment. Yes we can all grumble, but at the end of the day only a small minority wants anarchy, and sees the restrictions in place as on the whole better than being ungoverned. Of course how well theyve considered the question is another thing, and I'm sure for some its assent, for some consent, for some refusal to do either of those, and for some something between. Regards, Lava!