[grandpa]

Quote by: Sonart . Is that right? So what's the TRUE value of a quart of milk? How much of my art skills should I trade for it? .

There is no true value of a quart of milk, as it is always in flux.
As for getting milk with your art skills, it probably wouldn't be necessary. But conceivably it could be done.

Quote by: Sonart . Here's a paragraph from one of your links... --"If you want to move into one of the big mansions and it is available, by all means go for it. If you want to build a big mansion and can get enough people together to help you build it...go for it. But this is what my gut sense tells me...if the big mansion is no longer a sign of wealth, matter of fact, ANYONE can have a big mansion...are you still motivated to build a big mansion to rattle around in and take care of? Yes, there will be a few and they are welcome to do that. This is about true freedom of choice, not controlled choice."-- How absurd. A big mansion will ALWAYS be a sign of wealth, even under the barter system. First it has to be built... hell, first you have to acquire the land, but nevermind that. And let's assume you have a hundred dear friends, all of whom have exactly the specialty skills you need to build the mansion, and all willing to spend months working all day... all just for you, cuz you're such a great friend. You still have to come up with the materials. There's the construction materials, the plumbing, the wiring, the fixtures and the furniture. That's a LOT of bartering, and you and your supplier are going to have to figure out the equivilent values of things to be bartered. 5 and a quarter tons of decorative brick... let's see, you want that in goats or football skills?

It could be a lot of bartering. Who knows? If people want to share a mansion, then they can do it by whatever means they so choose. I doubt it would be done for just one person, as opposed to the selfishness fed by the current system.

Quote by: Sonart . But being cynical, I'm thinking it will probably be hard to get 100 of even your best friends to build your mansion for nothing. You'll need specialists. So let's say you get 100 specialists... carpenters, electricians, plumbers, drywallers, painters, etc. who will each spend about 2 months of solid work. Okay, for two months, I'll pay you each... let's see... three cows each. Fair enough? So, now I have to come up with 300 head of cattle. THAT is wealth. What's that? You don't need 3 cows? You need what? A year's worth of Internet service? Well, sorry, I can't provide Internet service, but I know a guy who makes suitcases, which I currently need and he wants a painting. He can barter with his doctor for medical service, who'll barter with his barber for haircuts, who can barter with his massuese for 3 cows worth of massages, who can barter for exactly three cows worth for the Internet service. Great, okay, that's one down, 99 to go. Next? You don't need three cows either, hunh? (Damn unions) Okay, what do YOU need? {{SIGH}} Then, once built, you have to MAINTAIN the damn place. Hmmm, what's the going barter for a full-time landscaper these days? Like I said, Grandpa, society has become WAY too complex, and someone's always going to get wealthy... whether it's cattle, seashells or favors. .

What's different? Trading is something people routinely do. If bartering somehow prevents somebody from building a mansion, then so be it. We can't all get what we want. Your examples don't make any sense. People would likely never trade cows for massages (or whatever). You are assuming that everyone has only one thing or service to trade, which is simply ridiculoous. Sometimes, I can imagine, an actual trade wouldn't need to take place.

But the underlying point behind all this is that money is abstract and relies on the threat of poverty creation, which does not, for me, mean an "advanced society."
I don't equate sadism with social advancement.

Grandpa h.