[Sonart]

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Quote by: Amuse Most of you are missing the point. You keep refering to $ value and the whole point of the thread is NO money.

The only one missing the point, Amuse, is yourself. It's not about $ value, it's about the real value of what one contributes to the collective. We are NOT a subsistance society, in which we create exactly enough to eek out bare survival. We create far more than needed for subsistance, which allows our economy to grow, and the value of what we create needs to be distributed based on what one contributes to that growth. Being fallable humans, the current system's obviously not perfect, but it could not work AT ALL without a form of currency, and no civilization for 5,000 years has been able to do that.

Quote by: Amuse If money were not an issue, would you still do the job you do now and why?

That was the concept behind Communism... "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need". It failed because people are NOT willing to give 100% if there's not at least a taste in it for them. With appropriate checks and balances, self interest benefits everyone by motivating individuals to excell. Ambition is what drives progress, not idealism.

Quote by: Amuse Could you do the job strictly for personal improvement and knowledge?

No. Again, Communism showed that people won't. When capital was no longer the currency of ambition, the currency became power. Ambitious, motivated people are always going to seek out the currency that gets them ahead, whether it's money or power or whatever.

Quote by: Amuse How does it help the collective?

Excelling raises the bar. I'm not a supply sider by any stretch of the imagination, but in a liberal democracy a rising tide does lift all the boats, and it takes motivated, ambitious individuals to raise the tide... as long as you have democratic checks and balances to prevent ambition from running off into oligarchy.

what would YOU decide your wants and needs are keeping in mind you no longer have to keep up with the Jones's and keeping in mind that $ value IS NOT AN ISSUE?

My wants and needs are to not be spending 3/4s of my time bartering the real value of my contribution to the community through 12 layers of barter, trying to angle some way to trade my particular skillset for that damn quart of milk. My wants and needs are to do what I love for a living in a challenging, creative atmosphere, live in an exciting, sophisticated, culturally diverse city and to be able to buy what I want, be entertained when I want, and experience what I want, according to what my skills will afford me, without worrying about how many people I have to barter with in order to go see that great movie I've been looking forward to this weekend.

Isn't that clear enough for you? Your air-fairy idealism doesn't explain how, without currency, I'm going call my gal to join me for a couple of decent seats at Stomp this weekend at the Civic Auditorium, purchased online, and then casually stroll the Gaslamp District afterwords for someplace new for dinner, a couple of drinks and a pleasant chat... none of which has a damn thing to do with keeping up with the Jones's.

How on earth do I barter my art/aircraft maintenance/librarian/bio-medical research/fire fighter/grocery store manager skills for that? Explain to me in a practical manner how that could work and maybe - just maybe - we have something to talk about. And don't tell me I would be better off living without it, because you asked me what I want and need and I just did.

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