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Quote by: phoenix_fire HGP, are you one of these people that goes from forum to forum spreading canned propaganda, only responding to threads you yourself create, stubbornly emphasizing your monopoly on Truth and eventually disappearing without a trace? In other words, is it going to be gainful in any way for me to have a discussion with you? 'Cause if you answer yes to the first and no to the second, you're going on my Iggy list. |
OK, I'm a newbie here, and I may get blasted for saying this, but it seems to me that "HolyGhostPower" has made some points.....whether others LIKE those points may be debatable, but a search for truth is not about what we "like/dislike." Facts are facts, and they can either be accepted or rejected, but they still remain facts! A reading of authentic Scripture does not lead one to a "trinitarian belief." I haven't looked at all of HGP's posts, but I suspect HGP is also aware of at least some of the many verses that were deliberately altered by the Roman Church so as to make the Biblical text conform to the "trinity doctrine," such as Matthew 28:19; 1st John 5:7, etc. [And even the Roman Catholic Church admits it changed the text and that the doctrine is the product of Roman Church theology, not the bible.] It is also true that the early church had no such doctrine.
I wouldn't be too quick to jump down HGP's throat without checking out the facts!
See:
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstu...819-willis.htm http://www.bibletexts.com/versecom/1jo05v07.htm
And see the following from:
http://www.bibletexts.com/verses/v-1jo.htm
1Jo 5:7-8 - omit KJV wording: in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth - (based on a needed correction of the KJV's Greek text)
This text is not found in any modern English versions, i.e., not found in those versions that are translated from the current representations of the original texts. (The NKJV is not such a modern translation. It is still totally dependent upon the KJV and the same faulty Hebrew and Greek texts from which the KJV was translated. )
Even up to the fifth and final edition of Erasmus' Greek text in 1535, Erasmus fell prey to pressure and manipulation from church authorities to add to subsequent editions phrases and entire verses that he strongly (and rightly) suspected were not part of the original text. (The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, Second Edition, Oxford University Press, 1968, pages 100-101, which document how Erasmus was conned to include what is translated in the KJV in 1Jo 5:7-8, the following text: "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." Erasmus' 1535 edition still relied upon no more than six Greek manuscripts, the oldest (but least used!) of which was from the tenth century.
In Biblical Hermeneutics (edited by Bruce Corley, Steve W. Lemke, and Grant Lovejoy, Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 2002, page 388), Harold Freeman, in his chapter on "Biblical Criticism and Biblical Preaching" writes:
Textual criticism is the discipline that seeks to identify the original wording of an ancient document. Textual criticism of the Bible benefits preaching by preventing nonbiblical sermons. ...We regret giving up a nice doctrinal sermon on the Trinity based on 1 John 5:7b (KJV). Nevertheless, if it is determined that these are additions to the original writings, whether intentional or accidental, biblical preaching based on these texts cannot occur... Sermons based on spurious or corrupted texts cannot be genuinely biblical. The determination of exactly what the Scripture said is the starting point for biblical preaching.
For additional details regarding the corruption of this verse and of the entire so-called Textus Receptus, which was the basis of the Greek text used by the KJV translators, browse
http://www.bibletexts.com/versecom/1jo05v07.htm http://www.bibletexts.com/kjv-tr.htm#1jo0507
As for John 1:1, et seq., see:
http://www.bibletexts.com/versecom/joh01v01.htm
Granted, the "trinity doctrine" is a well entrenched tradition....but that does not automatically mean it is a correct one! The tradition of "Good Friday" is well entrenched, too....unfortunately, Christ was crucified on Wednesday, not Friday.
http://www.bible-truth.org/WhatDayDidChristDie.html http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/J..._crucified.htm