[Technosoul]

Quote by: grandpa Quote by: Technosoul Some companies are organized along those lines, each employee has a share in the profits that can be generated by the company in total. It works sort like a democratic business, workers determine how much time off you can get and so forth, because everyone is involved in trying to make profit for the company, and in the hopes that their company will profit, no one would dare goof off or get lazy, nor make too many errors, because everyone else would be on his case, peer pressure. . I have discussed co-ops before in some threads, and I do think they are a viable alternative. Quote by: Technosoul Any attempt to abolish the state would be out of the question. And would boarder on treason. However the politcal systems of a state should become more user friendly to the voters and tear down some of the walls of red tape and so forth that keeps people from involvement. I think words like "treason" are a scare-tactic, to be honest. I realize there are even (believe it or not) people in the government who mean well, and that certain government programs are even practical. Like, for example, Upward Bound which is a voluntary program designed to keep kids more interested in college and even offers college-style courses to highschoolers in the summer. I used to work in Upward Bound, and it was (and I'm sure still is) a program that worked reasonably well--not perfectly but well. However, I think government force through taxation is a terrible means to create such a program. I challenge capitalism, therefore I challenge property and income taxes--all of which rely on coercion and exploitation. Quote by: Technosoul However, you have stated an alternative but did not address the actual topic with a yea or nay comment. Fair enough. My take is that social programs are practical so long as there are living expenses. If bosses and landlords have legal rights, why not the working class? With this specific issue, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think relying on the state and/or private interests is a trap designed to keep people weak and ignorant of life's possibilities outiside of stringent, life-threatening controls. Grandpa h.

I have not reviewed your comments in other threads as why you do not appove of co-ops. Perhaps they are not for everyone and some people would not like that type of work environment. However, th system is productive and they seem to do well economically. In other situations you have worker unions, who must bargan with the employer on behalf of the employee, at first that system worked well because we ended up with better working conditions, fair breaks. and fair pay for a fair days work. But now the unions deduct for their services, and it is greed verses greed at the barganing tables, mostly having to do with pay rates.

I guess the word treason might seem threatening but we are not talking about changing how the state governments work, abolishment would occur only if some group was able to overthrow the government. It would be nearly impossible to arrange for a way to vote the government out of existance. So you tell, what should we call the act of overthowing a government and leaving no one in charge, except for people who might eventually work together to subdue their bosses in the workplace. ????? Do you think this can be done via a revolution of peaceful protests, or what?

Living like a hermit in a cave and being able to survive by fishing, hunting, and growing an apple tree next to the cave, is cool for the few who can locate such an islolated place deep in the woods. But everyone living in a populated culture is in fact a prisoner of that culture, that is to say, dependant upon most everyone else, and in some way, others are dependant upon him, if he is capable of doing his share.

I do not know what you mean by the phase "self-destructive goals". But among that thought I would imagine you are talking about people who prefer to be just plan lazy, so they try to find a way to live off of public welfare and they they watch TV all day - when in fact they are able to work if they would just get motivated and find a job. The government should view this as a mental-medical problem and we should put our PH.Ds to work on finding a cure for that disorder.

The other mode of operation that you might call a self-distructive goal is when women know that they can only continue to remain on welfare if they have a depdendant child, so they make sure that they have enough children to last them for years, and when their teen daughters are old enough, they do like Mama did and then they support Mama when she is too old to have anymore kids, with the incoming welfare checks, and good household managment. This has been going on for generations, and they even "keep" their men so that they also do not have to work (which would be an automatic cut off of welfare checks). The men do things like buy used cars, tinker with them a bit and then resell them for a few hundred dollar profit, no car lots, just a sign in the window of the car is all they need. The women also request help from the local chruches, and when they go to the store they buy three bags of food, then call the store and ask them it someone left a bag by misstake (which they really brought home) and the manager says "look at your reciet and tell us what is missing, it was probally restocked, and we will replace the items missing". So they go back to store with the reciet and get some free stuff. (basically getting the most expensive items at half price). Tricks of the trade. Each time they shop a different store so no one catches on to their little scams.

Oh oh, someone is going to have a wedding, so they buy and expensive dress to wear at the wedding, then after the next days wedding they run back to the store with some complant about the dress they wore to the wedding. And get a full refund. This is how they live their whole life, one scam after another, and no regrets about it.

So that is the big hangup with welfare programs, it is the scam artists, who know how to do it "within the rules and laws" of that program, they are better informed then the people hired to do the interviews at the department office. They call it "street smarts" which is a form of education for sure., but not the kind that is productive or good for the rest of our culture.