[SteveA]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Man, I would love to respond to this peice of trash thread, and the "let's bash the empirial conservative cheerleaders" posters that followed (I REALLY loved Steves bit about msot of us REALLY want a religious government... man get a clue) But why bother?

I said some really do want a religious government. I didn't say all. If you've talked to some of the more zealous religious ones, you can see they really do want a lot of religous views in government. I've tried to moderate this view many times elsewhere on this forum and indicate that many religious folk don't believe government is the solution for social issues, but still a good number of them either don't see it or don't care when their particular religious views can be enforced .... democratically of course, but enforced none the less.

Not a single one of you can show where a right you have is gone(please explain how YOU PERSONALLY have lost a right), or trampled upon.

I (supposedly) don't have a right to get this FBI keystroke logger out of my computer (see if there's still a virus company left that they haven't intimidated into allowing it).

I (supposedly) don't have a right to travel by air and not potentially be subject to a full body search.

I (supposedly) don't have a right to be subject to indefinite detention simply if someone declares I'm a terroist.

I (supposedly) won't have a right to travel freely without having a national ID with biometric information in the near future.

It's useless to continue this. You've been around long enough to not be ignorant of many prior freedoms that people have had that have been restricted. Bush himself is pressuring for more, include torture, espionage against citizen without even court approval. People get put on "no-fly" lists by government with little of any explaination or recourse, everytime a parade happens now we have miles of police officers around, free speech and right to assembly are now confined to "Free Speech Zones" ... etc.

(Even if you don't care about this continual growth toward a police state from any perspective of liberty, at least consider the costs of these)

You cannot show any American Empire, you can only parrot the words of Daily KOS and Michael Moore.

I never listen to either of those guys though I probably should.

So 700 or so military bases around the world and the addition of a couple recently new national governments imposed by our military (I'm not going to count other such governments from the 40s and up but simply due to this one President only) don't represent anything like an empire? (I bet the British Empire didn't even have this many military bases around the world)

You are full of outlandish statements and "Deep concerns" and bumper sticker logic "Bush lied, people died".

You're full of stereotypical assumptions and one of the reasons there was no room left in the Republican party for me. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

You have no answers for todays problems that don't start with the word "Impeachment".

Well there are 2 other branches of government, but truly the way our government operates with a separate executive branch there's no balance if Bush simply decides to blow off decisions made by the courts (or Congress, though Congress hasn't stood up against him much yet ... he's only vetoed 1 single laws in almost two terms as far as I know ... how's that for a total waste of millions of man years of political debates over who the next president should be ... at least Clinton vetoed stuff).

Tyrrany? You people haven't a clue what tyrrany is. But hey, this thread is a perfect example of why the Conservative Republicans have taken and held power for so long, and by such a margin.

You're talking about neo-conservatives, not conservatives. You guys don't resemble any of the Old Right who were independents that didn't need the government to hold their hands.

It doesn't matter. You guys are just as bad as Democrats and going to take a dump politically assuming you can't get electronic voting off the ground fast enough. Honestly in many ways I'm happy to see this stuff happen. It's been building up for a long time and you guys are going to topple the system yourself. You had the chance and blew it from my perspective (it's sad but apparently there's still a learning curve going on).

While you are making ludicrious claims and whineing about phantom issues, Bush is solving real ones and dealing with them. While you freak out, we fix. And in the end, we win the elections, and you guys go even more nutz.

Ok deal. You keep "fixing" things and we'll keep sitting by the sidelines.

You do recognize that libertarian views can't be blamed for almost anything this president has done? You might as well just alienate whatever minimal government proponents are still around in the Republican party because we have virtually no political voice left. You and the Democrats still have free reign to run the place into the ground. Have fun.