[mathurin]

Quote by: Sonart Bad analogy, mathurin. South Korea was like Kuwait, the victim of aggression from across their borders. We went in not to take over their country but to defend it from invasion and overthrow. Once the conflict was over, we promptly handed control of both countries back to the same governments who had asked us for help. Had we occupied, say, North Korea, I daresay we'd still be fighting a guerilla war there to this day.

ok, i would accuse you of editing history but like most americans, you prolly dont know much about this war, i was amazed at my own ignorance before i took the class im currently in (test over the first year of korea is tomorrow morning, i should be studying, after the first year it became a more defined war)

after WWII korea (formerly owned by japan) was broken in half at the arbitrary 38th parralel (arbitrary because there was no river, mountain, or any force multiplier to increase defensive ability) because it was a hop skip and a jump away from japan, the north was pretty much a soviet satelite, and they put a guy named kim il sung in charge, or, they murdered every party except the communist party, then held elections, whichever version you like. in the south the US pretty much manipulated Singman Rhee into power, so south korea was under indirect control of the US. our sec. state madethe mistake of publicly stating that korea was outside of our area of interest, which led the soviets and chinese to believe that if they supported (unofficially) the norths invasion of the south, the US would not help defend, so the north got tons of supplies, including 120 T34s, possibly the best tank of its day, and the north rolled through the south (which we had armed without anti-tank capability, because much like Kim, Rhee made no bones about his wish to "reunite the peninsula" by force) to shorten the story, the UN labeled north korea an agressor nation and we went to war, getting horrid losses, then the tables turned and we cut off the norths supplies by taking inchon, then seoul, and the routing reversed and it was the north getting its butt kicked horridly, we chased their ass all the way to the Yalu river, then china decided it didnt want capitalists that close and entered the war, pushing the US back to more or less where the whole thing began, least to a more defensible position near the 38th (this next bit i havent learned much about, but am going by what the book has been revealing about the rest of the war) where they pretty much fought back and forth like it was WWI

Quote by: Sonart The better example is Somalia. We went in for decent, idealistic reasons, but it became obvious that the warlords intended to exact a price that we were unwilling as a nation to pay for a mission that was, at bottom, not really all that important to our national interests. So we pulled out, knowing full well we would be leaving the Somali people defenseless.

oh yeah, pulling out of somalia was a great idea, rofl, thats been a black eye on us for a long time, damn, we lost like 8 soldiers and ran, it makes rattling the sword in future negotiations useless

america, the paper tiger no more

Quote by: Sonart Same in Iraq. Had this been about WMD and ties to al-Qaeda, the American people would certainly have been willing to pay a high price to defeat such a threat. But we found out it wasn't about those things and watched the administration flounder around for an alternative rationalization. Saving the poor Iraqis from a horrible, repressive regime and bringing democracy to the mideast are certainly worthy goals... up to a point. But beyond that point the American people have decided it's simply not worth it. Personally, after a great deal of introspection, I'm still convinced we should stick it out a while longer, but not for much longer and my conviction to that end is wafer thin.

he had plenty of other reasons, for some stupid reason he relied on poor intel

i say in another 5 years the attacks will heavily decrease as life gains a normality it never had under saddam, and the people stop supporting the terrorists

Quote by: Sonart As to screaming at the Republicans for pulling out and leaving the Iraqis defenseless, the only screaming I'm going to engage in is for the heads of all those who got us into this debacle in the first place... not the least of whom would be Dear Leader, who should be impeached for Gross Criminal Negligence. .

so what about all those who voted to go to war in iraq, do they get a free ride because they float with the political climate like the pussies they are
even if the initial reasons proved to be incorrect, we already have the country, it would be stupidity to give it back once we have gained a foothold


and yes, we will have to maintain a force in iraq for a very long time, if only to show our resolve to stay, we keep people in korea not to defend it, because the forces we have there are minor, they could not hold off a attack for long, but they are americans, and if an attack comes and american blood is spilt we will jump into action, instead of hmming and hawing over whether our treaty requires us to act on the allied nations behalf or not
i am guessing that in 30 years we will be able to leave if we wish, however the current level of attacks shouldnt continue beyond the 8 year mark, but its just a guess