[Sonart]

Quote by: SNPete But really what I am after is evidence. You see, neither side on the issues of origins, can come up any solid objective evidence to prove one's view. Without solid evidence on a notheistic view of origns there is reason to suppose that saying God did it is any less rational than saying God did not do it.

You say you're after evidence, yet you require absolutley none to claim that God or some undefined 'Intelligence' created everything. Now if you like, I'll come right out and say that there is absolutely nothing rational about suggesting that God did anything, because I'm absolutely positive, beyond all doubt, that there's no such thing as gods, spirits, ghosts, demons and anything else supernatural. But since I can't possibly prove it, it plays no part of any scientific debate for me.

The origin of life, on the other hand, has many different possible scientific explanations. All that's necessary is the accumulation of additional empirical evidence, and I can pretty much guarantee we'll be seeing that long before we see any empiracal proof of the existance of gods.

Quote by: SNPete So if the universe did not come to be by chance, random or otherwise (as if!), then one must conclude it came to be by design. Unless there is a third alternative???

Sure... random events guided by the intrinsic laws of nature.

Quote by: rez For some reason you skiped Sonart's wonderful post, but i'll let it go...

Thanks. I get a lot of that.

Quote by: Isherwood Randomness does not imply chaos. It pertains to the order of things; randomness suggests no particular order. Chaos would relate to the organization of things.

Indeed. Chaos theory suggests that randomness often seeks order, particularly when you apply physical constraints... gravity, etc.

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