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Quote by: dotcoma Pope says unjust..so there is no moral justification? :rolleyes: Since when does the catholic church define morals?

Georgie set great store by what the pope had to say except when it didn't suit him. I could have listed out numerous other church leaders all calling it an unjust war. You will note that for the purpose of brevity , I had only noted icons, you might say. You had no difficulty with the other icons. Is it catholicism or all religion that you have a problem with? You wouldn't be anti-catholic?

So you had no problem

Huge pre-war antiwar demos. NO UN backing. Very reluctant allies. 'With us, or agin us' 'Slam dunk'. Flowers. Torture icons forever. Prisons. Gulags. Gitmo. POWs. Crooked trials. Started months before official start. NO WMD. ALL LIES. HUGH casulties. HUGH Iraqi civilian casulties. Rendering. US War criminals. The Pat Tillman lies. US only above Israel on hate list. Downing St Minutes. Madrid bombings. London bombings. No electricity. Little OIL. Oil prices off the radar. Hide from old lady Sheehan. Home Land non-Security. BULLY Bolton in UN. Debt. And a lot lot more.

All these you accept. If I'm right on all theses, by all means kick the pope.

Also, our "reluctant allies" are being investigated for their involvement in oil for food agendas that would have surely encouraged them to try to maintain a Saddam-ruled Iraq.

The whole 'food for oil' program was immoral. When it's worked out who stole the most other than the Iraqis, I'll be delighted to debate this. Of real benefit to you in the meantime is this audio/transcript.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: or audio tape Democracy Now! John Perkins - author of "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" - who says he says he helped the U.S. cheat poor countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars by lending them more money than they could possibly repay and then taking over their economies.

Well I can tell you have no idea how dark the situation is. Thank god you have no authority to make any decisions. You exit and what you get is a victory for these anti-western terrorists. What will happen to the Iraqi people? Who will they blame? What will be the result? The result could be a new terrorist state with a new hotbed of recruits (Iraq). Leave before reconstruction and stabilization and you'd be a fool. Since when do you define what justifies war? Realists may see the region as in need of a transformation to help prevent terror at home (by going to the source region).

I have not just criticised like quite a number of posters. I have attempted to offer solutions. I started "So, how would you stop the War?" I could highlight postings but you can check your self. If the US leadership had first the interest of Iraq, then the US and lastly themselves then there is an immediate solution there. It will not be accepted as it means a partial lose and major lose of future influence in Iraq. That latter was the prime cause of the invasion. The longer the US remains, the bigger the loses all round and the harder it becomes. THE WAR IN IRAQ IS LOST.