Volconvo Debate Forums - View Single Post - Baseball & softball axed from the 2012 Olympics

Osborn F Enready · Jul 11, 2005, 06:42 pm

T-Man said:
If you have control, then they can't even reach you with their fists.

I say:
Well, then you are speaking of some type of side control, or back control I have never heard or seen before.

The only way to insure that you couldn't be hit, would be to pin both arms, and legs, and to do that would allow a rollout, reverse, spin, flip or any other various move, or wouldn't allow you a way to finish the fight by knockout or submission.(Having control is only good until the person on the bottom gains enough strength back from resting on the bottom, to mount a good attack or spin-out. If your opponent will not submit, you only tire yourself by maintaining control with no means to finish.)

When I said side control, I meant you had control to keep that person from getting up, getting leverage enough to strike you "effectively" meaning leverage and body motion affected punches that have knockout potential with each shot.

We have all seen a fight where someone flailing wildly has gotten a lucky, knockout punch that ended the fight. I have seen several times when a person has had someone in a side control position, but could still be struck by wild flailing, or panic punches. Back control is much harder to hit the person behind you, but is still possible if the person controlling them has to stop controlling and try to figure out a way to finish someone, as opposed to just doing it through reflex of proper training.

My point was that American wrestling has many excellent fundamentals, but do not have a wide enough, or all encompassing array of finishing moves for different positions. When wrestlers get into streetfights, you will often see them get the other person to the ground, and then flail at them with wild punches or kicks until they submit or get knocked out. If they were trained in more moves, they could end the fight without bloodying their knuckles. Incorporating Jiu-Jitsu locks, chokes, and strikes is absolutely beneficial to a good practitioner of american wrestling for real world self-defense.

Jul 11, 2005, 06:42 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	T-Man said: If you have control, then they can't even reach you with their fists. I say: Well, then you are speaking of some type of side control, or back control I have never heard or seen before. The only way to insure that you couldn't be hit, would be to pin both arms, and legs, and to do that would allow a rollout, reverse, spin, flip or any other various move, or wouldn't allow you a way to finish the fight by knockout or submission.(Having control is only good until the person on the bottom gains enough strength back from resting on the bottom, to mount a good attack or spin-out. If your opponent will not submit, you only tire yourself by maintaining control with no means to finish.) When I said side control, I meant you had control to keep that person from getting up, getting leverage enough to strike you "effectively" meaning leverage and body motion affected punches that have knockout potential with each shot. We have all seen a fight where someone flailing wildly has gotten a lucky, knockout punch that ended the fight. I have seen several times when a person has had someone in a side control position, but could still be struck by wild flailing, or panic punches. Back control is much harder to hit the person behind you, but is still possible if the person controlling them has to stop controlling and try to figure out a way to finish someone, as opposed to just doing it through reflex of proper training. My point was that American wrestling has many excellent fundamentals, but do not have a wide enough, or all encompassing array of finishing moves for different positions. When wrestlers get into streetfights, you will often see them get the other person to the ground, and then flail at them with wild punches or kicks until they submit or get knocked out. If they were trained in more moves, they could end the fight without bloodying their knuckles. Incorporating Jiu-Jitsu locks, chokes, and strikes is absolutely beneficial to a good practitioner of american wrestling for real world self-defense. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready