[Pale RIder]

Quote by: macnpat If the zygote is no longer a part of her body, by what laws are she or the sperm donor required to incubate it?

Presently no law requires her to incubate it. Roe will be struck down because of a flawed application of the law of the same sort that happened with Dred Scott. The woman's right to privacy, to not be inconvenienced, or whatever right she might claim does not supercede another human being's right to live.

Quote by: macnpat Someone owns it because it is through possession that it is being kept alive until it can survive on its own.

Newborns, infants, toddlers, pre adolescents can not survive on their own either. Are you suggesting that the parents "own" thier children until they are able to survive on their own? If you are, you are promoting slavery, if you are not, then your whole argument just fell apart.

Quote by: macnpat Maybe because of the number of arrests of back-alley abortionists. But, no one will really know the savage costs to young women when abortion was not legal.

By the same token, no one will know IF there was a savage cost to young women. The whole discussion is a fabrication. You have no more knowledge of what happend than I so there is no place within a discussion of fact for fantasy.

Quote by: macnpat I don't know how to break through this type of ignorance.

Ignorance? What have I said that is not factual. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Arguing that an unborn is part of the mother is ignorant because it is contrary to what is factual. If I am exhibiting ignorance, then you should be able to offer up facts to contradict me. I don't see that happening. Maybe you are holding back for a grand finale'?

Quote by: macnpat Does this mean that if you believe this hard enough, you can keep your head buried in the sand?

I am speaking from a position of scientific fact that you can not tear down. Whose head is buried?

Quote by: macnpat But they can pollute their bodies with alcohol and prescription drugs.

Legal. You asked for laws that restricted what people could do to / with their bodies. I obliged.

Quote by: macnpat Oh? Do laws prevent thoughts of suicide?

Thoughts of suicide and actual suicide are two different things. You do recognize the difference don't you? When Roe is struck down, thoughts of abortion won't get you in trouble with the law, having an abortion will.

Quote by: macnpat You are right. It is illegal to sell your body for profit in most States. Unless it's adult porn.

I am damned near always right. Infuriating isn't it? It is because I thouroghly research a topic before I begin to argue it. I used to be pro choice but someone much like myself completely tore down every argument that I could offer up. I researched more than you could possibly know in an effort to prove that I was right and he was wrong. I couldn't do it because I was wrong. Being a thinking person, I could not justify holding a wrong position no matter how politically correct it was. Owning slaves was once politically correct.

No matter what argument you put up, I can dismantle. The sort of argument you are making doesn't even require effort to dissasemble. I have debated this subject with OB/Gyn's and come out on top. I know this subject like the back of my hand. In fact, the more a person knows about the biology of reproduction and human development, the easier it is to sway them. You don't have to explain EVERY TINY DETAIL to them. The weight of their own knowledge breaks down their argument. It is those who lack any real knowledge that require the most effort.

Quote by: macnpat That pertains to vehicle laws, not the body. If you sit in the back seats they do not apply to you as a passenger.

In my state, all passengers must be belted in, front seat and back. Moot point however since abortion is not something the woman is doing to her own body.

Quote by: macnpat I agree that the woman is terminating the life of another human being and it is wrong. But, it is a question of whose rights supercede the others. A woman has Constitutional rights over her property that are not abrogated by conception.

Of course it is. No one has the right to kill another human being unless that human being is threatening their life. And again, you are suggesting that the woman "owns" her unborn child and that constitutes slavery. Clearly unconstitutional. It is for all these reasons that Roe will be struck down next time it is heard.

Do you realize that it (Roe v Wade) only held on by one vote last time it was heard? And that vote was in question until the 11th hour. It will fall next time and the issue will go to the states. I doubt that abortion on demand will even pass in CA or MA. Most states will, in all likelyhood, allow abortion only when the mother's life is in danger.