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Quote by: SNPete The fact that the universe exists has nothing to do with how it came to exist or even why it should exist. To simply state the fact the universe does exist as a proof that it came to be by chance is a weak argument in face of scientific theory and logic. A better and more logical explanation is needed.

To be able to say that there once was a begining is quite bold of you. I, as a human being can only understand cause/effect and time/space, but since the universe is so huge I am inclined to say I am ignorant and do not know much about what is going on in reality.

Quote by: SNPete Science teaches that Order cannot rise out of Chaos. As a matter of fact there is a tendency for Order to flow toward Chaos over time. The universe and our very bodies are governed by laws, like the laws of Thermodynamics. Also consider mathematics, DNA, physics, etc.

I do not know WHY natural selection occures and neither do you.

Quote by: SNPete Those of us, who are spiritually minded believe the universe came to be through the creative action of a deity. The Christian uses the argument “where there is a watch, there must be a watch maker”.

Like I said before: you only know cause/effect and space/time, so you are inclined to believe in a begining and an ending.

Quote by: SNPete Our argument is based on this logic: Take all the parts that make up a Rolex watch and place them in a bag. Shake the bag, thus allowing chance to cause the parts to fall into their correct places and form a completed, functioning Rolex. How long do you suppose it would take for the functioning Rolex to be formed? We say never. What are the chances of this happening? We say zero or at the very least a zillion to one.

haha are you serious? how can you compare the construction of a WATCH with NATURE? The universe has been around for a long time, so something random happening is quite possible.

Quote by: SNPete You heard our side of the story for a long time and you disagree. I have no problem with differences of opinion. But I have a true interest in why you believe what you do. So please tell those of us, who believe otherwise, why you believe the universe came to be without the action of a deity.

I am just trying to understand why I am here.

Quote by: SNPete Please give me more than the statement that believing in God is foolish and illogical. Make the argument from you side instead of simply saying my side is wrong. Take the proactive, not the reactive approach. Give me something new! Here is your chance to shine!

Nobody should believe in God simply because the concept of GOD is far beyond the imagination of any human. There are so many things to learn on earth. I for one enjoy thinking about what goes through the mind of a dog or even an ant. Does anybody know what goes through an ants head? To be able to understand the awarness of nature is far more fulfulling then reading the Bible. I rather start with what I do not know and work my way up. For some reason "religious" people like knowing there is an all powerful God that created everything, but do not realize they Dont know ANYTHING AT ALL. The fact is pete you know nothing, but you think you know everything. This is egotistical and foolish and it looks like GOD would not like that one bit.


I just dont believe the world I live in today is the center of the universe.......for some reason you do......it is because you are egotistical.