[jeffl]

Quote by: toal Is there such a thing as a consciousness (choice), or are we all pretty much pre-programmed robots who run the race of life with an illusion of choice, yet whos fates have already been sealed? If our fates have been sealed, who, or what for those less religious types, sealed them? Any evidence for fate, or choice? Try to make a valid and factual arguement for your case, and if you cannot be factual, at least have a sound arguement.

I take it you are asking if we, as conscious beings, are epiphenomenal; that we are a consequence of our physical perdicament alone?

I think it might be that we are almost epiphenomenal. The arrangements of the stars, and especially the moon, had a significant influence on how our first words were formed. It is conceivable that someone could fiddle with the celestial symphony on one hand and look at the output of the human effort on the other, and set a desired result. I don't mean to describe the nature of God or Being in anyway; only to suggest a mechanism for some sort of teleological structure. If this is the case, then we would look like epiphenomenal beings at first glance; but upon further reflection i think it's clear how we might be more than that.

Also, in such a structure it would be the case that

Quote by: syracusa We can move from point A to point B by virtue of our choice but in reality, both point A and point B are within the same fate-created frame and don't differ much after all.

while at the same time there would be the case of extraordinary circumstances, where heros are born. And it occurs to me that traditional spirituality is about making heros when needed; atleast in some measure.