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Samildanach · Feb 13, 2004, 04:37 am

As far as I am concerned nature is just a system. Its a naturally evolved system which I happen to agree with you is a rather beautiful construct in terms of engineering science. However thats all it is. Putting one's romantic associations onto a system by calling it 'mother' doesn't change that fact, and are death disease and natural disasters a 'necessary part' of a healthy ecosystem?...I would accept that death is, I would not accept that disease, floods, hurricanes etc are necessary in any way at all other than to encourage biodiversity (and more death)...and ultimately death doesn't have to be for all if the environment is big enough to support an unlimited number of biological units. eg space.
If you look at micro-environments such as island environments which are in effect isolated 'mini-natures' they get along quite happily with just death between predators and prey as a pastime.
As for nature being a malicious untamed force standing in the way of human progress.....for a lot of our history thats exactly what it was and to some extent continues to be. I accept there is no esential guiding force behind nature that is malicious but its essential effect on our culture has been a selection pressure to avoid getting caught in the negative extremes thus forcing us to progress as a race to the point where we are now. Look at your car or house if you want an example. As for enrolling in a highschool environmental studeis course....lolol. I know enough to compete with whatever you can throw at me. So if you have any points you want to bring up go right ahead after all this is what a debate is all about.
If I make a fool of myself along the way so be it, at least I'm not scared to throw my opinions out there right or wrong as they may be.

As for you NORML sure Nature was here first...and this is significant how exactly? Please explain to me why we will never be able to 'harness all that is embodied within the elements of nature'.
and embraqcing nature is not my way of thinking at all. I think we should learn what we can from it and use the knowledge to build new environemnts.

Feb 13, 2004, 04:37 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	As far as I am concerned nature is just a system. Its a naturally evolved system which I happen to agree with you is a rather beautiful construct in terms of engineering science. However thats all it is. Putting one's romantic associations onto a system by calling it 'mother' doesn't change that fact, and are death disease and natural disasters a 'necessary part' of a healthy ecosystem?...I would accept that death is, I would not accept that disease, floods, hurricanes etc are necessary in any way at all other than to encourage biodiversity (and more death)...and ultimately death doesn't have to be for all if the environment is big enough to support an unlimited number of biological units. eg space. If you look at micro-environments such as island environments which are in effect isolated 'mini-natures' they get along quite happily with just death between predators and prey as a pastime. As for nature being a malicious untamed force standing in the way of human progress.....for a lot of our history thats exactly what it was and to some extent continues to be. I accept there is no esential guiding force behind nature that is malicious but its essential effect on our culture has been a selection pressure to avoid getting caught in the negative extremes thus forcing us to progress as a race to the point where we are now. Look at your car or house if you want an example. As for enrolling in a highschool environmental studeis course....lolol. I know enough to compete with whatever you can throw at me. So if you have any points you want to bring up go right ahead after all this is what a debate is all about. If I make a fool of myself along the way so be it, at least I'm not scared to throw my opinions out there right or wrong as they may be. As for you NORML sure Nature was here first...and this is significant how exactly? Please explain to me why we will never be able to 'harness all that is embodied within the elements of nature'. and embraqcing nature is not my way of thinking at all. I think we should learn what we can from it and use the knowledge to build new environemnts. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)