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Old Mar 29, 2005, 12:39 pm   #14 (permalink) (top)
LogicaLunatic
Hrm...
 
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Location: MN
Posts: 445
"faith in science or faith in a deity, its all faith."

You and I both see belief and faith in completely different lights so to prevent bickering over definitions I'd like to suggest a new word that will capture the meaning nicely. Trust. I trust that the rock will fall if I drop it. I trust that I will make it home tonight. You trust that there is a god. You trust that the bible is true. Etc.


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Definitions...

Trust: Something in which confidence is placed.
Please note that I'm not using the definition of Trust that means or is related to the word Hope.

Science: The Scientific Method.
Please note that I'm not referring to just the body of knowledge that has accumulated using the scientific method but also to the method itself.

Deity: Religion as it exists in religious texts, traditions and lore. Also includes divine revelation.
Please note that I didn't specify a religion.
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Now lets rephrase your assertion...

"faith in science or faith in a deity, its all faith."

TO

Trust in science or Trust in a deity, it's all Trust.

TO

Place confidence in the scientific method or place confidence in religion, no matter what you place your confidence in you will be right just as often. (So why not go with religion since it doesn't change as much as science.)

TO

The scientific method and religion are equally reliable and equally valuable in describing how the universe actually works and in making predictions about the future.

(This is how I've interpreted your assertion. If I'm wrong please let me know. It seems that you could mean that your assertion is true only about the beginnings of the universe.)
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This is starting to look like a debatable assertion so here we go...

If your assertion is true then when we tackle an issue using both of them we will get one of the following results...

1) Both science and religion will produce the SAME or roughly the same result and be RIGHT.
2) Both science and religion will produce the SAME or roughly the same result and be WRONG.
3) In all other cases science will have the same hit rate. If science is right 75% of the time then religion will be right 75% of the time but perhaps not on the same issues.

Well just a quick look through history will tell us that none of the three conditions above are met.

But, the assertion could still be true if science and religion both fail. The assertion says nothing about HOW valuable science and religion are, only that their values are equal.

So, it looks like we have actually have to tackle a few issues to find out for sure.

Lets try this....

Where, in relation to the Earth, will the planet Mars be exactly five years from now?

This experiment is going to take a while but we'll finally know which is better. So you search the Bible for an answer and pray for a revelation and I'll use science. Meet you back here in five years.

Thanks!

LogicaLunatic


"Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive." -- Wallace Irwin
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