Merlin's note to LogicaLunatic.....I read your response a few times to determine if you truly wanted to engage in serious debate. In any debate forum, much time is wasted on nuisances with no consequential value. However I determined that you are serious. Also all forum members, I do have a weird and alternative way of thinking. I can assure all of you that I take everything serious regardless of my writing thinking style.
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LogicaLunatic writes...You're right, terminology isn't the issue but we should at least agree to call apples and oranges oranges. Do I need to believe that a rock will fall? No, I've seen it happen. Do I believe rocks fall? No, I think they do. It's a slight difference but it IS a difference. Based upon previous experience I come to the conclusion that the rock will fall. I'm basically Remembering the Future.
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we should at least agree to call apples, apples and oranges oranges
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Merlin replies.....if we were talking of everyday objects you would be correct. However in discussing matters of faith, of belief and religious experience, one must consider that his or her everyday experiences and even reality is not as it seems. The slight difference of belief faith and "thinking something will happen are all one in the same. If you applied your theory to Quantum particles (as in Quantum field theory) the theory would fail, as the particles do not behave in the manner that they should according to your real world common sense world.
So we aren't comparing real world terms most of the time because of the very nature of this topic (religion and to a lesser extent philosophy). Words utterly fail us when trying to convey metaphysical terms and/or experiences. This is why intelligent conversation is so difficult on this subject. I will be happy to attempt clarification on anything that I write.
You are not flawed in your logic, you are flawed, or maybe limited would be a better word, in your interpretation of logic. That is the western methodology is the only possible outcome for a set of observable facts. I am of course western, but have had (by the grace of God) some infusion of eastern knowledge and learned to view any problem or circumstance from more than one head on view. Just as in a set of plans there are many views and they all are correct.
So with the above in mind
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Faith is a belief taken to the EXTREME where there is NO evidence to support the idea in question. Faith can only lead to trouble which is why I say that faith isn't moral.
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This is another example of comparing apples to apples etc. Where exactly does belief become faith? Even If you could point to an imaginary scale and say "this right here is where belief becomes faith" It would be a subjective measurement and therefore an impotent, and rather useless, measurement.
When does art become obscene? Or when is pornography become porn? Define this, in concrete precise terms and I may agree with you.
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Faith is a belief taken to the EXTREME where there is NO evidence to support the idea in question. Faith can only lead to trouble which is why I say that faith isn't moral.
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This is such a broad assumption as not to be answerable, and in fact illuminates why 90% of true critical thinking has vanished from most western minds.
What type evidence do you need? The very gist of what I was trying to communicate is that the western mind accepts flawed information and stamps REAL EVIDENCE with their approved theory of the day rubber stamp!
This approved information always incomplete, at times fraudulent, and intentionally misleading. Who builds a paradigm foundation on this corruption of factual information?
I've been lied to and conned by better flimflam artists than our indoctrinated tenured scientific and political high priests. You must learn have FAITH in your own intellectual ability and reject what is obviously flawed or down right corrupted information. This paranoia (I call it healthy paranoia) crucial for free thought and is nearly in absentia today.
Now for the latest take on the pitiful and much modified big bang theroy....its getting on to the shank of the morn...but i will be back....
mb