[Starboy]

Quote by: Pale RIder Do you see where you are going?...and how far away from the topic you have had to get in order to torture the facts badly enough to make your eroneous point? The topic is when does life begin...and you are talking about cloning sterile horses and donkys in an effort to prove that human beings that have not yet reached sexual maturity are not human beings...and you missed the part about hybrids...mules are not a species because they are a hybrid...we are not talking about hybrid humans either....this discussion is just about when life begins...

You brought up species. But I disagree that it is not relevant. In fact it illustrates your basic difficulty. It is germane to the discussion because at issue is the same concept. That a species is more than just a living organism. Just as at issue is a living organism is more than just living cells.

But a zygote is not "just" a living human cell...it is not to be confused with a platet a white blood cell...those cells will simply reproduce themselves and never become more than what they were...a zygote on the other hand is a developing being...it is a unique being among all the beings that ever lived...

Good you know the difference between cells. Now find the zygote in all human beings.

Yeah...I suppose that one who has a thourough understanding of the cell would not know jack about organisms...like one who is proficient at calculus would not necesarily know how to add or subtract..you are talking out of your ass star boy...are you still in high school?...or perhaps junior high?...and simply have never looked at a college catalog or course requirements and prerequisites?

Sure I am in highschool. Yes I am a pimply faced highschool freshman. And if you like I have dyslexia and ADD. If you like my IQ is 75. And I was raised by wolves. And yet I am running circles around a dentist. A dentist that doesn't know how to count.

They?...who are "they"...if you are in a lab setting they are most certainly called embryonic chickens...if "they" are the cooks at the waffle house, then I wouldn't expect "them" to recognize the biological signifigance of an egg...to "them" it is just an item on the menu to be cracked and cooked.

Sure, sure. Even farmers call eggs chickens. So do grocers. And yes of course people ask for a dozen chickens all the time when they want a dozen eggs. My you fancy dentists got us low IQ, pimply faced HS freshman with dyslexia and ADD that were raised by wolves beat! Those dental schools have done a fine job. I'll bet that you would never say that shit and shinola are different either. I mean after all they are made of atoms and pretty much the same atoms so they must be the same. Why heck, they both started with atoms and there were always atoms there so they must be the same.

And as I have already tried to explain to you...and you can go check this out if you need to, there is a germinal disk on the yolk that is the actual chicken...it is microscopic, but believe it or not, just because you can't see a thing with your naked eye does not mean that it does not exist... Here is a link to a web site for you...it is at a very elementary level but the information is biologically correct... http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/explore/embryology/ Note that throughout the entire process, the developing embryo is described as a chick (juvenile chicken) Note this page...24 hour chick... http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/e...o_drawing.html

So? This does nothing to refute my point. All you have done is show that there is process that takes an egg to a chicken. Not that an egg is a chicken. There is a process that takes all sorts of things and turns them into other things. People do not then say that the result is the starting material. The fact that there is a process that takes eggs to chickens is how people can easily differentiate between the inputs and the outputs. People do not call eggs chickens because they are not chickens. In order to become chickens they must go through the process that you describe.

The point is if "they" are cooks at the waffle house, or chefs at the 4 seasons...or star boy...one would not realy expect them to describe what is inside the shell of an egg with any particular scientific accuracy...but if "they" are educated in the biological sciences, "they" know that there is a chicken at one stage of development or another inside that shell...

We are not talking about the anatomy of the egg. We are talking about the distinction that all people make between the inputs and the outputs after they have been processed. That just because two results have the same input does not make them the same or the same as the inputs. If you believe that then I would like to sell you a shipping pallet and charge you the same price as a house because they are both made of wood so therefore they are the same.

Of course you were...do you think that you just sprang, fully formed, from your mother's body...You can trace your existence back to a singluar moment in time...you and every other human being. Chances are that your mother talked to you quite often before you were born...and there is a good chance that you already had a name before you were born....your mother knew that you were a human being, even from the very beginning even if you can't quite grasp the fact....

But I can't trace my existence back to a single cell. There was a point when I did not respond as a human being. I do not remember being a single fertilized cell. There is no way for me to remember it. I didn't have any brain cells let alone any brain cells that could remember anything. I cannot trace my existence as a human being back to a single cell because it is impossible for a single cell to be a human being. If you think that a single cell is a human being, even a cell specialized to grow into a human being in a womb then all I gotta say is that you probably should not be in a medical field even if it is dentistry.

It would be just as stupid to try to feed an infant BBQ ribs...the fact that the infant can not eat meat does not mean that it is not a human...and the developing chicken derives its nutritional requirements on exactly what it is supposed to...it must develop further before it can eat feed just as a child must develop further before it can consume meat...I would suggest that only a confused person would fail to recognize such an obvious difference...

Hey it is stupid to feed BBQ ribs to an egg. So what?

An unborn human functions at the level that it is supposed to function at...A toddler can't swim at the level of an olympic swimmer, but the toddler is no less human for that fact..hell, you can't swim at that level either, does that make you less human? Ahuman at conception + 1 second is functioning exactly as a human at conception + 1 second is supposed to ...just as a child learning to walk is functioning at its appropriate level...

I never said that it wasn't but there are functions that we do expect humans that are alive to perform and a healty toddler qualifies, but a brain dead person, toddler or otherwise, does not. And it doesn't matter that the body of the dead person is still alive. And it doesn't matter if they are dead after they have lived or before they have lived. They are dead. I have said this to you many dozens of times by now. Living cells do not in and of themselves constitute a living human being. This is so obvious that I hope that your patients visit here and know who you are so that they can leave your practice because you have no business in any kind of medical field.

Perhaps you should have read your own "brain dead" links...they explained quite clearly that one is only considered dead when the brain condition is irreversable...lots of people need life support for a short time and recover...they were never dead...and some people need support for a very long time and recover...they also were never dead...

Hey I agree, and if you remove a fetus from the womb before the brain is formed that is irreversible. That in order for a fetus to be considered alive it must have a functioning brain.

Again I ask you, what species did you belong to before you were born...before you answer, here is a link to some scientific information for you...

Why do you keep on asking this question. Do you know what the definition of an idiot is? A person that does the same thing over and over again and expects a different result. Did they teach you that in dental school?

But I am done. I am beginning to feel like an idiot myself. I have heard your broken record enough. I'll just make sure that I don't ask you for any eggs.

Starboy