[Pale RIder]

Quote by: Starboy Hey you are doing fine. The crayons are helping you. You got it. If it is a species then it can reproduce. Possible not a species for those that are born sterile, it all depends on why they are born sterile. If it is because of genetic reasons then they are not genetically equivalent to reproductive donkeys, or horses or asses. They are not official members of that species. Because if you cloned the non-reproducing horses or asses or whatever and the clones could not reproduce then they would not be a member of a species. That is the whole point. This is how natural selection works to create species. Changes occur in individual animals that can be passed on reproductively and for whatever reason groups of animals continue to accumulate changes until they are now a new species because they will not naturally reproduce with animals that are outside their group. Reproduction is a key element as to what constitutes a species and members that cannot reproduce for genetic reasons are not a member of that species because they can’t reproduce. So get out your crayons again and figure that one out.

Do you see where you are going?...and how far away from the topic you have had to get in order to torture the facts badly enough to make your eroneous point? The topic is when does life begin...and you are talking about cloning sterile horses and donkys in an effort to prove that human beings that have not yet reached sexual maturity are not human beings...and you missed the part about hybrids...mules are not a species because they are a hybrid...we are not talking about hybrid humans either....this discussion is just about when life begins...

[quote="star boy"]Okay, now apply that in reverse. If all the cells in a fetus were working properly then when it is born it will not need a man made apparatus to facilitate respiration or any other important function for life. Apparently you have figured it out for a thing with human cells that is not alive on the dying side but you have not quite grasped the exact same principle as applied to the fetus side. But hey, pull out your crayons again. Maybe that will help.

So you are saying that a child born with any disorder that requires medical intervention is not human...do you realize what an absolutely stupid statement that is to make...how about some proof...show me any credible source that suggests that a child that needs medical intervention is not a human being...


[quote="star boy"]You are doing it again. You are confusing a living human cell with a living human being. You must learn to at least count. It would help you make this distinction.

I don't get your reference to counting...are you suggesting that a human who weighs 350 pounds is somehow more human than one that weighs 100 because the larger human has more cells?...

Quote by: star boy Any living human cell meets the criterion for life, but any living cell does not meet the criterion for human life. You have already admitted this....

But a zygote is not "just" a living human cell...it is not to be confused with a platet a white blood cell...those cells will simply reproduce themselves and never become more than what they were...a zygote on the other hand is a developing being...it is a unique being among all the beings that ever lived...

Quote by: star boy Agreed, but they don't know jack about organisms. And they don't really care at the moment. My bet is after they have figured out how the cells work they will attack the problem of emergent phenomenon in multicellular organisms.

Yeah...I suppose that one who has a thourough understanding of the cell would not know jack about organisms...like one who is proficient at calculus would not necesarily know how to add or subtract..you are talking out of your ass star boy...are you still in high school?...or perhaps junior high?...and simply have never looked at a college catalog or course requirements and prerequisites?

Quote by: star boy Yes everyone knows that, but they still do not call an egg a chicken. You can repeat this all you like. All you have described is how an egg becomes a chicken. The fact that an egg cell can change into a chicken by a process doesn't make an egg a chicken any more than the fact that you can make an egg can be transformed into a meringue make an egg a meringue. If you ask the chef for an egg and expect a meringue then you are an idiot.

They?...who are "they"...if you are in a lab setting they are most certainly called embryonic chickens...if "they" are the cooks at the waffle house, then I wouldn't expect "them" to recognize the biological signifigance of an egg...to "them" it is just an item on the menu to be cracked and cooked.

And as I have already tried to explain to you...and you can go check this out if you need to, there is a germinal disk on the yolk that is the actual chicken...it is microscopic, but believe it or not, just because you can't see a thing with your naked eye does not mean that it does not exist...

Here is a link to a web site for you...it is at a very elementary level but the information is biologically correct...

http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/explore/embryology/

Note that throughout the entire process, the developing embryo is described as a chick (juvenile chicken)

Note this page...24 hour chick...

http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/e...o_drawing.html

The point is if "they" are cooks at the waffle house, or chefs at the 4 seasons...or star boy...one would not realy expect them to describe what is inside the shell of an egg with any particular scientific accuracy...but if "they" are educated in the biological sciences, "they" know that there is a chicken at one stage of development or another inside that shell...

Quote by: star boy I was never a single cell. No one ever went up to a single cell and said, “Hi Starboy”. Going up to a single cell and greeting it as Starboy is just silly.

Of course you were...do you think that you just sprang, fully formed, from your mother's body...You can trace your existence back to a singluar moment in time...you and every other human being. Chances are that your mother talked to you quite often before you were born...and there is a good chance that you already had a name before you were born....your mother knew that you were a human being, even from the very beginning even if you can't quite grasp the fact....

Quote by: star boy t would also be silly to try to feed an egg chicken feed because there is no chicken there. Only stupid or very confused people make this mistake.

It would be just as stupid to try to feed an infant BBQ ribs...the fact that the infant can not eat meat does not mean that it is not a human...and the developing chicken derives its nutritional requirements on exactly what it is supposed to...it must develop further before it can eat feed just as a child must develop further before it can consume meat...I would suggest that only a confused person would fail to recognize such an obvious difference...

Quote by: star boy A single cell is not a human being, and even billion cell collections are not necessarily a human being. It becomes human when it can function as a human. And it stops being a human being when it doesn’t function as a human being even with life support.

An unborn human functions at the level that it is supposed to function at...A toddler can't swim at the level of an olympic swimmer, but the toddler is no less human for that fact..hell, you can't swim at that level either, does that make you less human? Ahuman at conception + 1 second is functioning exactly as a human at conception + 1 second is supposed to ...just as a child learning to walk is functioning at its appropriate level...

Quote by: star boy If whatever in the womb cannot function as a human being even on life support when it is out of the womb, then it is not human. People who cannot function as human being even when they are on life support are said to be dead humans.

Perhaps you should have read your own "brain dead" links...they explained quite clearly that one is only considered dead when the brain condition is irreversable...lots of people need life support for a short time and recover...they were never dead...and some people need support for a very long time and recover...they also were never dead...

Quote by: star boy The same goes for what is in the womb except that it was never an alive human. It was a human egg that was becoming a human but it up to that point it is not human.

Again I ask you, what species did you belong to before you were born...before you answer, here is a link to some scientific information for you...

http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/

Note that when the topic is being discussed by actual scientists it is called a HUMAN embryo, and the gestation period is called the HUMAN embryonic period...no one with an actual science background...even the most rabit pro abortionist would suggest that the embryo is not a human embryo...and a human embryo is just a human being at a particular stage of development...

SO..AGAIN...what species did you belong to before you were born?