[SVMc]

Quote by: Sasha This reason could be applied equally to poligoumous or incestuos relationships, In fact it is reasonable to suppose that the laws surrounding a marriage could give added protection to individuals in those relationships from the abuse and power imbalances you mentioned.

Since marriage laws are laws that govern responsiblity after an agreed upon contract I don't understand how it is possible to make the leap of logic that marriage laws could be preventative, much less how such laws could prevent the astounding relationship between incest and child-abuse or between women's exploitation and polygamy. Please explain.

Quote by: Sasha The incest argument is over in so much as I agree that child abuse, and incestuous child abuse are bad things, but although you have successfully established that most child abuse is incestuous, you have not established that most incestuous relationships stem from child abuse.

I've been able to establish that the majority of incestuous relationships are harmful because they involve child abuse. You have failed to provide research on a substantive amount of incestuous relationships that do not involve child abuse. If you can provide substantive evidence that there is a significant number of incesteous relationships that do not involve child abuse when compared to the number of incesteous relationships that do involve child abuse then we have a dilemma on our hands. Until such evidence is provided I'm fairly secure in my argument that incest is harmful. It is your burden of proof to show that incest is not harmful.

Quote by: Sasha The argument your making is similar to saying that because the vast majority of rapes are committed by men, therefore all men are rapists. The more apt solution is to make child abuse illegal, like rape is.

Nope, unlike incest there is a substantive amount of evidence that there are a great number of men in fact many more men who are not rapists than men who are rapists.

Burden of proof is yours... but do you really want to build a case that incest is not harmful? If so this is where I really must suggest that we take this part of the debate to a new thread.

Also, there is no relationship between incest and homosexuality, so the status of harm or no harm on incest has little bearing on homosexual marriage other than the fact that people keep equating homosexuality with things like incest or polygamy or pedophila for no other apparent reason other than to create fear around homosexuality.

Quote by: Sasha It seems to me that the benifits of marriage are not granted simply to Quote by: SVMc extends benefits that society at one time has viewed are necessary to protect the individuals in a couple when the law enteres the lives of that couple. In cases of property division, inheritance, child custody, power of attorney and more, but rather as a means of encouraging a given relationship based on the premis that society would benifit from it.

I didn't say that that was the only reason why marriage benefits existed, I did state at least two more reasons in that same thread.

Also, it's not up to the government to reward particular kinds of relationships over others without proving that there is a different contribution made by one relationship that is not made by the other. If the government wants to reward the raising of children that is what the child tax credit is for. Not what marriage laws are for. We can slide back into the procreation debacle here, but it's probably easier to ask you to review those posts and tell me which parts you take issue with.

Quote by: Sasha the heterosexual couple can provide the child with a better upbringing. Now I realise thats a radical statement and it doesnt hold in ALL cases, but on the balance I think its a fair statement.

You know I would have to disagree with that statement. But it is not really relavant to this debate since marriage is not based only on procreation or child raising. Also a person does not have to prove their parenting abilities prior to marriage (although there are times that I'm sure we all wish that they did have to).