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Donnyl · Feb 10, 2004, 02:19 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (orgaelin,)
Is the Christian church just a tired old whore waiting to die?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

That depends. Are you referring to the RCC? If so, I agree with you that the RCC part of the Church is comparable to a whore, as it has been unfaithful to God's covenant, forsaking Biblical doctrine for fanciful theories, such as semi-pelagianism, the immaculate conception, and the infallibility of the pope. However, the catholic church (lower-case c, referring to the universal church, as found in the Apostles Creed) is not a whore, but the Bride of Christ, being sanctified and cleansed by the washing of the Word by Christ, and through the ministers of God ordained to lead the children of God and raise them up in Godly teaching. Now, one could make the case that the catholic church (lower-case c again) does have her blemishes (of course she does), but calling her a tired whore waiting to die is too strong.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I watched a program the other day about sexual corruption within the Roman Catholic church. It wasn't just about the paedophilic activities of priests, but about the widespread sexual dysfunctionality caused by the church's denial of that so natural of Human impulses.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Alright, so Christians are sinning and Church authorities are failing to properly discipline them. This is new?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
The program also showed how the number of new priests signing up is declining rapidly. Is the church on its last legs? It was once the largest and greatest empire (or should I say, it once Borg-esquely assimilated the largest empire) and was untouchable as the supreme source of evil on earth. I have a book which goes through the list of popes and lists every sin they committed. You feel more like you're reading a collection of the sins of people on death-row!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Again, if you would like to criticize the RCC, make sure you recognize that it is merely part of the catholic church, not the whole of it (though, IIRC, the council of Trent would disagree). Furthermore, make sure to examine yourself before throwing accusations like this at various popes and bishops of the RCC. What are your beliefs? What are your actions? Do they line up with the word of God? If you are not a Christian, on what basis do you judge the actions of other men? What is your ethical foundation?
Also, what on earth do you mean by "the surpreme source of evil on earth"? Not only are you going to need an ethical foundation of your own for such a statement, but you are going to have to develop some objective way to measure evil. Finally, you will have to measure up the RCC against Hitler's Third Reich, the Mongolian, Assyrian, Babyloanian, Hittite, and Egyptian Empires, Stalin's USSR, southern chattel slavery, and a host of other things in history. To make a statement like you made is very arrogant and very unwarranted, at least based on what little you provided in your initial post.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I think what we are witnessing is a world which recognises that it's biggest church, the most bold acclaimant to the authority of God, is and has been the source of the greatest wrong-doings of Humanity. As the sins of the church become better and better known, decent people are becoming ever more wary of the church.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Wary of the RCC of the catholic church? If the latter, is such a wariness warranted?
And you again made the unfounded assertion that the RCC is the most evil institution ever.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
There will always be the fundamentalists (God help them!), but as the major religious movement on earth, I suspect the Roman Catholic faith will be just a bad memory within 50-100 years.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Possibly, though I very highly doubt it. The RCC has survived through a lot for much longer than that (Eastern Orthodox schism, Reformation, division over the Vatican council, etc.). By God's grace, I hope and pray that the RCC, EO, and Protestant churches will eventually be more united, but God very well may choose to cut off the RCC because of its sinfulness.

Feb 10, 2004, 02:19 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Donnyl Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (orgaelin,) Is the Christian church just a tired old whore waiting to die?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> That depends. Are you referring to the RCC? If so, I agree with you that the RCC part of the Church is comparable to a whore, as it has been unfaithful to God's covenant, forsaking Biblical doctrine for fanciful theories, such as semi-pelagianism, the immaculate conception, and the infallibility of the pope. However, the catholic church (lower-case c, referring to the universal church, as found in the Apostles Creed) is not a whore, but the Bride of Christ, being sanctified and cleansed by the washing of the Word by Christ, and through the ministers of God ordained to lead the children of God and raise them up in Godly teaching. Now, one could make the case that the catholic church (lower-case c again) does have her blemishes (of course she does), but calling her a tired whore waiting to die is too strong. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I watched a program the other day about sexual corruption within the Roman Catholic church. It wasn't just about the paedophilic activities of priests, but about the widespread sexual dysfunctionality caused by the church's denial of that so natural of Human impulses.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Alright, so Christians are sinning and Church authorities are failing to properly discipline them. This is new? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by The program also showed how the number of new priests signing up is declining rapidly. Is the church on its last legs? It was once the largest and greatest empire (or should I say, it once Borg-esquely assimilated the largest empire) and was untouchable as the supreme source of evil on earth. I have a book which goes through the list of popes and lists every sin they committed. You feel more like you're reading a collection of the sins of people on death-row!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Again, if you would like to criticize the RCC, make sure you recognize that it is merely part of the catholic church, not the whole of it (though, IIRC, the council of Trent would disagree). Furthermore, make sure to examine yourself before throwing accusations like this at various popes and bishops of the RCC. What are your beliefs? What are your actions? Do they line up with the word of God? If you are not a Christian, on what basis do you judge the actions of other men? What is your ethical foundation? Also, what on earth do you mean by "the surpreme source of evil on earth"? Not only are you going to need an ethical foundation of your own for such a statement, but you are going to have to develop some objective way to measure evil. Finally, you will have to measure up the RCC against Hitler's Third Reich, the Mongolian, Assyrian, Babyloanian, Hittite, and Egyptian Empires, Stalin's USSR, southern chattel slavery, and a host of other things in history. To make a statement like you made is very arrogant and very unwarranted, at least based on what little you provided in your initial post. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I think what we are witnessing is a world which recognises that it's biggest church, the most bold acclaimant to the authority of God, is and has been the source of the greatest wrong-doings of Humanity. As the sins of the church become better and better known, decent people are becoming ever more wary of the church.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Wary of the RCC of the catholic church? If the latter, is such a wariness warranted? And you again made the unfounded assertion that the RCC is the most evil institution ever. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by There will always be the fundamentalists (God help them!), but as the major religious movement on earth, I suspect the Roman Catholic faith will be just a bad memory within 50-100 years.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Possibly, though I very highly doubt it. The RCC has survived through a lot for much longer than that (Eastern Orthodox schism, Reformation, division over the Vatican council, etc.). By God's grace, I hope and pray that the RCC, EO, and Protestant churches will eventually be more united, but God very well may choose to cut off the RCC because of its sinfulness.